<Begin Segment 2>

KL: What do you remember about the format of those pilgrimages in the '80s? Can you walk us through sort of what happened, if you went to any other part of them at the Eastern California Museum or anything?

ER: Oh, I know that they usually had the drummers there, the music. They always had the ceremony out at the grave sites, always sharing of food, and we always took something, but we always got all this sushi and all the neat stuff that they had for us. We had... so it was basically visiting together, eating together. There were some speeches like Bill... I'm pretty certain Bill Mott spoke at one of them there. And they had Mayor Bradley from Los Angeles came up, and he spoke once there. So there's always some kind of official that spoke at those. And they were just fun. And the fun part was just visiting with these folks. And I cannot remember her name, but you two might know her. There is a Japanese American girl who was in the Park Service, and her parents were interned at Manzanar. And every year they would seek me out and say, "Ed, we would love to see our daughter get up here someday and work at Manzanar." And she was, I think, an interpreter in Hawaii maybe at the time.

AL: Was it Lisa Okazaki? Because I know Ross was trying to recruit Lisa.

ER: Well, Ross and I talked about it. The name doesn't register right now, but probably so.

KL: We'll have to ask him.

ER: Are you still in touch with Ross?

KL: Somewhat, yeah. Some staff members are, and we have kind of shared acquaintances and stuff. Did you ever meet... or was there more you wanted to say about the format?

ER: No. I think each one was similar format, but the different speakers and different crowds... and the crowds varied from several, three or four hundred to eight or nine hundred, it was kind of a variable group. But I don't know if we missed one. I know we didn't miss any intentionally, and we've only been to, I think, one since retiring.

KL: When was that... approximately when was that project that George Voyta worked with the Boy Scouts on?

ER: Well, if I had my Park Service diaries I might find that. But it had to be somewhere in probably the early '90s. Well, '92 to '94, somewhere in that range, probably more the earlier date.

KL: Did you ever meet Sue's sons or any of her nieces, Sue Embrey's kids?

ER: No, I don't remember meeting anyone but Sue. But she was always there and very helpful. I did find one thing interesting. You had three generations of Japanese Americans there, and I found the ones who had the most positive memories and were really outgoing were the first generation. If there were some that were angry, there were a couple young men I remember, they were really furious about, "How my parents and my grandparents were treated." And the most anger we felt in the younger people, not in the older people. And I'm not sure, I guess all of us get more mellow as we age, or so.

KL: Some people.

ER: Some people.

KL: One other question about your introduction to those Cow Creek buildings. Who pointed that out to you, that connection to Manzanar, do you remember?

ER: Bob... let me think, embarrassed here to think of his name here. Bob was the chief of maintenance, and I remember he gave me a tour of the maintenance area. Quesenberry, Bob Quesenberry. He was the chief of maintenance there when I arrived, a couple years later he transferred to Canyonlands and retired. But he was the first one to point it out. And then I started going... I get intrigued with history, and that kind of, I'd never really heard of the internment camp program, it just was never on my radar until that experience in Death Valley.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.