<Begin Segment 14>

KL: Do you recall the, you've mentioned the trip to Minidoka a couple of times, so of course you do recall it. What can you tell us about leaving Puyallup and traveling to Minidoka?

IT: Well, it seems like we weren't told where we're going, but maybe they were and they didn't tell us. And then they had to pull down the shades, so we couldn't even see out, because people hated us and they were afraid, I think, what they might do as we were going. I don't know, but we had to pull down the shades, and in that book it said so, too. Then when...

KL: Were you, so you were separate from your parents on that trip?

IT: Well, they were in the hospital train, but I wasn't afraid then. I don't know why I was so sensitive about it. It could be that, well, I'm not sure, but my mom used to take us, they used to have a theater in Minidoka, they showed Japanese films. And all the films that she took us to -- or I don't know if she took all three of us, but I went with her -- they had kids, it was in Japan, they were Japanese films, and something like that might've happened, I don't know, and maybe that frightened me. But I sure didn't want to go to Japan when I saw some of those films, because it just seemed kind of insecure, and I think they had, they could've had, well, I don't know if they even showed one with earthquakes, but something sad about the little kid. And I don't know, I probably put some truth to that, seeing the film. It could've been that.

KL: I just want to make sure this is actually counting -- yeah, it looks like it is. Your mother was in the hospital car on the train also.

IT: Yes.

KL: Was her health worse than usual? Had something changed with her health?

IT: I don't remember about that, but I do remember in Minidoka, about three times, she was in the hospital with a bad heart. And my dad would come home crying, saying, "I think she's gonna die." And she didn't, but I guess she looked pretty sad and he thought this is it. Maybe that had something to do with it, because at that point he couldn't do too much 'cause he had that stroke, and then my mom being the one that was the bread-- well, in camp, though, you couldn't tell that. Well, just to see my dad crying and he was so sad because he thought she was going to die. So, see, he was able to get around, so he wasn't, well, I'm glad he wasn't that bad.

KL: How would you characterize their relationship at that point?

IT: How would I what?

KL: How would you characterize your parents' relationship at that, at that point in Minidoka?

IT: Seemed the same as ever. I used to ask, my mother's very strong-minded and after she died I asked my dad, "Why do you always give in to her? Or if you didn't believe it or something?" And he'd say he doesn't want that trouble. He meant confrontation and just, so he said he just kind of went along with her. But they --

KL: Figured bigger struggles, right?

IT: Yeah, but they got along, but I keep wondering, sex-wise, I think it ended fast, because I slept with my mother when, after the war, and I don't know if he slept with the brother. Later I was sleeping with my sister, but for some reason I remember sleeping with my mother and she telling me a lot of things. But then I did sleep with my sister, so I'm not sure what the situation was. But when we got back, she'd come home about ten o'clock at night, and then we'd go to school the next day and then she must've gone to the shop maybe nine, but she'd go by bus. But those people, she found a little niche in Chinatown, and those guys, I think a lot of them were Filipinos, they'd call her Mary. But anyway, my mom says that they'd come by, I guess they respected her, they liked her, so they would sit around, keep her company, almost like protection. And then there was a Japanese guy that, I think his wife had passed on, but every night he would go, bring my mom home by bus, and then my mom, we had nothing to serve, so she would, I remembered, serve him coffee or tea with buttered toast and then he'd take off and go back by bus. And he lived in, I think he lived in Chinatown, I'm not sure. And I think my dad was not too happy about it, but my, I know my mom's made a comment to me saying that it's just, "He's protecting me, it's nothing." So I think my mom and dad didn't have any disagreements, I mean, 'cause he was always willing to go along with her. [Laughs] But when my, I do remember my mom telling me that her doctor told her that she would die soon if she didn't quit work, because her heart's so bad.

KL: This was after the, after camp.

IT: Yeah. And she said she thought about it, and my dad couldn't do anything, couldn't work or whatever because of the stroke, but at least it's guaranteed that he would live on, whereas she would cut her life short because she has to make the money. And she was not gonna get anything from the government 'cause she was mad at them for putting us in camp. So she knew she was gonna die soon, and she said, "At least you guys are still young yet. You have Dad around." And that's what happened. So we did have to go under welfare, which my sister could not accept. I felt so sorry for her because I kept saying to her, "It's not our fault. We were put in that situation." But of course, we got out of it as fast as I could get a job and support them. But she's so ashamed of it, 'cause that's how we felt. We do our own stuff. But I said, "We couldn't help it." So I'm, I accepted it, but we had to live in federal housing and get welfare help. Then they were gonna take my brother away, and that's, all that stuff. But anyway, I couldn't believe that they were doing all that, after they made us penniless and then, then draft him when he was a breadwinner. But they took him for two years to Germany, as soon as I graduated.

KL: Your mom seems to really, yeah, she does seem to have been very farsighted in kind of looking out. I mean, it sounds very deliberate, that she made deliberate choices of, about how to --

IT: Right. And she explained it to me, so I, she did tell me a lot of things here and there about camp that...

KL: Did she ever talk about medical care in Minidoka, what the hospital stays were like, what her impressions of the doctors were like?

IT: No. I do remember, I had a lot of troubles with eczema and my face was all broken out, but I was this type where I couldn't miss school, so somehow the principal called me in and said, "I want you to go see the doctor." [Laughs] And then I was kind of shy, I guess because of the way it was all over, that my mom was working and she said, "I'll take the bus and I'll meet you at the doctor's place." I was too shy. I ran down, way down, I don't know how many miles --

KL: This is back in Seattle? IT: Yeah.

KL: Okay.

IT: And I ran there to see the doctor, and she told me she had kidney problems. That's all she told me. And in the same waiting room was an allergist or whatever, so she took me to see him, and we couldn't afford anything 'cause we had no plans, medical plans. He gave me treatment with, I don't know if I paid anything at all or not, but for years I got shots.

KL: What was that clinic's name?

IT: What was his name?

KL: Yeah, the doctor or the clinic.

IT: The doctor, it was that medical/dental building, his name was Thomas Gerrety. And once I looked up his name and called, it was his son. I should've gone further, but I didn't know if this, his son would trust me. But I just wanted to thank him, to get me this far, and I invited him to our wedding, but he didn't come. I was a little bit disappointed, but I wondered if he go the invitation that I sent. So anyway, but he was a Catholic guy and he, I think he had a pretty big family, and his wife died and he married his nurse or receptionist or somebody in the office.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2014 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.