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KL: Those are the big questions I had, and then I'll ask you if there's anything you want to add, but the one detail question that I think is important to ask about is Lillian Matsumoto, another real important figure in Manzanar. What can you tell us about her?

MM: Well, she was in charge of the orphans in Manzanar, and I don't know when her husband left her, at what point her husband left her. I think probably it was after the war, when she was in Los Angeles. Her husband left her and she had to fend for herself for, with the two, I think she had two children, one adopted girl, one of the orphan girls at Manzanar, and I think she had a son. I'm not sure about that. But eventually she married a minister, Reverend Omi, so she became Lillian Omi, and she served... what kind of church that was now? Free Methodist church, Reverend Omi was with the Free Methodists, and she was, she was a wonderful ,wonderful lady. She really suffered a lot, she went through a lot, so she's, she just was a wonderful lady. And she died this past year, I believe. We went to visit her in, I think it was Burlingame, and she was totally different from the last time. She used to work with us on the committee, writing the history, oral histories, in that book.

KL: So I wanted to ask you about that, but I was trying to exercise some discipline. [Laughs]

MM: Yeah, she was on the committee to write these oral histories, and then she had to resign because she had to move. She was moving different places, and so that left the committee with, let's see, Alice, Hei, Sab, and me. And then Mary Tomita, she died. She was on the committee. She died.

KL: What personality traits are defining ones about Lillian? You said she was wonderful, but what --

MM: She... I think she made her living sewing. I think that's what it was. She was a seamstress. She sewed for movie stars, when she was in L.A. area. I think that was how she made a living. she was a seamstress for the stars, and she was able to do well. And then she met Reverend Omi. I think that's what it was.

KL: Was she quiet or outgoing or...

MM: Yeah, she was on the, she's, how would you say, she was a strong woman, but she didn't push herself forward, you know what I mean? She just... it's hard to describe her, because she was so different. She just was different. I can't describe her, really. She was strong. She had to be strong, for what she went through.

KL: Yeah, I would think so. I mean, the orphanage, they had very little resources and very little time to be with individual children in that, but yet, I mean, it seems pretty obvious from people I've talked to that her level of commitment toward the welfare of those kids was very real and very deep, which would be a tough situation to be in.

MM: Yeah, she couldn't let them down. She cared about them, and that's --

KL: Did she talk about it ever with you? Or what can you...

MM: No, she didn't, she didn't. We found out about it later, later. And then when we went to visit her, she had Alzheimer's then and so it was difficult to get anything out of her. But when she was her bright self, on the committee working with us, she contributed to, through reading the stories and commenting on sensitivities, sensitive parts of the oral history. She was bright that way. She could catch...

KL: Just in a couple sentences, since it is important to you guys and to her, tell us what the project is that you're talking about, the oral history project. Why you did it and what it was like.

MM: Well, this committee worked on the Issei oral history because the Isseis were dying fast, and so they completed that and then they said, well, we need to work on the Nisei. So the Niseis, some of them didn't want to talk about their history, but those, they said, well, we better get 'em before they die, and so we started interviewing them. We had a set of questions to ask them that I think Hei Takurabe gave us. He was the one that started this Issei project, now going onto the Nisei. And so I came on board, Sab was with the Nisei -- Issei, excuse me, with the Issei, the first project -- and then I came on board with the Nisei oral history, and I was the transcriber. It was all on tape, and so I listened to the tape and then I typed out all their stories. Then we would all read it. Everybody on the committee got a copy, we read it for contact and correct English or, we don't want to lose the flavor of the way they talk orally, so we had to be careful of not losing that but yet help the person to keep on the subject, or we need to find out a little bit more of this. And if it was sensitive, "Do you want to mention this, and will you release it later on, after so many years? Are you willing to do that?" All these kinds of questions we had to ask. But my doing the typing was worth all the stories that I was able to hear on the tape. The best one was Reverend Aki of the 442. That was, I mean, I couldn't stop.

KL: What made his the best?

MM: Because he stood up, he stood up and he fought for the Nisei soldiers. They were being mistreated by the generals, and he went to the top. He literally went to the top chaplain in Washington, D.C. and said, "My men are being mistreated." And he listed all these things, such-and-such a date, such-and-such a time, what happened, generals did this and this and that. And he just kept a record, because that's what you have to do, you have to have evidence. And he said, "I can't stand by. That's my church," he said, "and I'm here to protect my church, because they're being mistreated." And he seemed to, he seemed to know that, or foresee that these men are gonna be mistreated and they need somebody to be on their side, speak up for them, and so he went into the chaplaincy. He seemed to sense that. He said, "This is the church, my church, and I'm going to go with them." It was a marvelous story.

KL: I really do think I could ask you questions about that for two hours, but I won't. I'll spare you that. What have I left out?

MM: Gosh, I think I've said enough. I've said enough.

KL: Thank you so much for doing this.

MM: You're welcome. You're welcome.

KL: It's been really wonderful to spend the time with you, and you've, it's just, this is a great interview. Thank you.

MM: You're welcome.

<End Segment 31> - Copyright © 2014 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.