<Begin Segment 8>

KL: What was your grandmother like, Toshi?

HK: My grandmother was very, as I said, a very sweet, soft-spoken person. And actually, my grandparents lived with us, when we came back from Nebraska. But then she was already sick. She became bedridden and had, (...) I think they said she had Parkinson's or something. And so my grandfather took care of her and we took care of her. But she was always very sick. By the time I really got to see her, then she was very sick. And so my mother took care of her too, so we all took care of her, 'cause she was bedridden and we had to bring her things.

KL: It sounds like your Omachi grandparents had a pretty tumultuous road of their relationship. I wonder what the relationship with the Igarashi grandparents was like. Do you have a sense of what kind of roles they played in their relationship?

HK: Well, from the history of the Igarashi family, my grandfather was very devoted to his "picture bride," and he would buy her presents all the time, 'cause he could afford it. He'd buy her beautiful jewelry and all the nice appliances and clothes and things like that. So he, I guess you would say was just (completely) opposite. And then they raised a family of nine, no, nine or ten children, and my mother was the oldest.

KL: Okay. What was her name?

HK: Mary, Mary Etsuko. And she was born in September of 1908. My father was born in April 10, 1908, and my mother was born September 11, 1908. So they literally were childhood sweethearts. So I asked my mother, "When did you meet Dad?" And she says, "Oh, I suppose it was when his mother brought him over when I was born." 'Cause my grandmother Omachi was a midwife, and so she helped all the newborns come into the world. And so (my father) had to go with her when she went somewhere, and so that's when they met, when she was born. [Laughs]

KL: Wow. And she helped your grandmother deliver your mom. You think she was the midwife who was present?

HK: Yes, I think so.

KL: Wow.

HK: Because I was reading somewhere else too, all the community, Japanese community wives all depended on her not only to be the midwife but to help when the children got sick, and she always knew what to do. And so she also was very good at cooking, so she knew how to cook many things. So I heard this from other people that remembered her, they said that she was very helpful in sewing, she knew how to sew clothes, and then also she used to make -- well, when we were in Tule Lake, she used to make jewelry. That's why I wore these seashell jewelry [touches earrings]. She would make -- and brooches. She was very artistic, besides being very industrious, she was kind of the person that if anybody needed advice they would ask her, "How do you do this?" And she would know how to do all that.

KL: What was your mom's upbringing and childhood like? Your dad had to work very hard. Was the same true of your mother?

HK: Well, my mother being the oldest, of course had to help with her younger siblings. But then her life was much more luxurious because her father was able to provide them with -- well, that's why she had, took piano lessons from the time she was young. So she and her sister used to go by horseback for piano lessons, and so that's how she learned to play the piano.

KL: Who taught them? Do you know?

HK: Yes, her name was Mrs. Stull in Roseville. And then when I was older -- my mother taught all of us when we were younger, but then my mother decided I needed to go to a more advanced teacher, so she took me to Mrs. Stull, her old teacher.

KL: Spell "Stull"?

HK: S-T-U-L-L. (...) I think Ardis was her name -- oh, Lillian, Lillian Stull. That was her name. So I took piano lessons from her too. And so my mother became the church pianist when she was only twelve years old, and then she taught all of our family, and her sisters too, her siblings. She taught all of us to play the piano.

KL: Did her parents, were her parents musical?

HK: My grandfather used to like to sing, and he used to sing and do the Japanese dancing.

KL: Do you remember any of the songs?

HK: I don't remember the songs, but he would try to teach me, when they were living with us after we came back from Nebraska. So he would teach me how to do the Japanese dancing, so that I always enjoyed that. But, in fact, he taught me so well that when I was in college they asked me to be in a play called Teahouse of the (August) Moon, and I had to sing a Japanese song and do a Japanese dance in it. So (...) that, to me was one of the most precious gifts he gave me.

KL: Is there a name for the type of dancing that he did?

HK: They call odori. Odori. And so he knew all the different (ones), he had these records and he'd play the records and then we'd dance and he'd try to show me how to do the different dances.

KL: Were there odori, I know Bon Odori, which --

HK: Yes.

KL: Were there Bon Odori celebrations or commemorations in Loomis, that you remember from your childhood?

HK: Well, usually the Buddhist church does the Bon Odori, whereas the Christians, of course, were a little stricter. I think they didn't believe in drinking and dancing. [Laughs]

KL: Was he unusual, then, in his enjoyment of it, your grandfather?

HK: Well, he just did it at home. But he did it mainly for his entertainment and exercise at home. So I used to just do it along with him. To me, I enjoyed it. I thought it was wonderful.

KL: Yeah. Was there a Buddhist church in Loomis?

HK: Not in Loomis, in a neighboring town called Penryn there's a large Japanese Buddhist church. They had the odori, Bon Odoris there.

KL: What, when you were growing up -- I know you don't, obviously, remember from before your time, but what was the relationship between the Buddhist and the Christian communities or churches, in Penryn and Loomis?

HK: Of course, I think probably they were closer than with the Caucasian community, because, since they were all of the same Japanese background. So I think I really don't know for sure, but I think they probably were, 'cause I know when we were living there we knew people from the Buddhist church, and the (Buddhists) would come, like if we had the church bazaars. But I think, since Loomis was a separate town then, the Caucasians started coming to our church too.

[Interruption]

KL: This is tape two, we're -- and I didn't say the date on the first interview -- it is the 10th of September, 2014, and also Mark Hachtmann is in the room for this whole interview, operating the camera. We're back with Hope Kawashima, and right when we cut off the first tape you were saying that Caucasians started being more of a presence in Loomis. I was wondering who else lived in Loomis, what other ethnic groups or immigrant groups or people were in Loomis?

HK: Yes, mainly, as I remember, there were Caucasian families, and they all became, now they're all members of the church, of the First Methodist Church.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2014 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.