<Begin Segment 15>

KL: And when did your father -- you said your father left pretty quickly, so he's not part of a lot of your Tule Lake memories?

HK: Yes.

KL: What was his departure like for your mother? It sounds like they were --

HK: Well, of course it was hard for her, 'cause she was already carrying one of our siblings, another sibling, so she was expecting. I don't remember the date of when our sister was born, but because of the conditions in the camp, and I guess from the trauma too, the baby was born stillborn. And so we didn't get to even see her. 'Cause the diet conditions and all the conditions, I think, (the) stress of being there without my father, I think was not easy for her. She had a very difficult time, and so the baby was born dead, so we don't, (...) I don't even know the name they gave her or what. We know it was a sister, but she was buried there at Tule Lake. But I know that for my mother was very sad and I think she became very depressed, because my father wasn't there. Luckily our grandmother was there, but then my mother didn't speak that much Japanese. My grandmother spoke nothing but Japanese, so they didn't communicate that much.

KL: And that was your father's mother, too.

HK: Right.

KL: I mean, her parents weren't there either.

HK: That's right, it was her mother-in-law.

KL: Where was the delivery? Was she in a hospital facility somewhere, or was she at home?

HK: They had, they called the infirmary. It wasn't really a hospital; it was a makeshift infirmary that I think one of the barracks was made into a kind of a hospital. Well, I think that was part of it, that was the medical facility, they didn't have medical facilities. It was just all makeshift and just volunteers. If anybody had any background in medical training, then they were hired for, I think, two or three dollars a month. The doctors and nurses were paid just a very meager salary to work in the infirmary.

KL: Yeah. It would, I wonder what the date was because that was the same at Manzanar. I mean, it was in an old barrack and there was, it wasn't, there were no provisions -- well, from what I've heard from oral histories, there were hardly any provisions at all, but certainly not for things like maternity or geriatrics or...

HK: No.

KL: So if it was early, I mean, I'm sure it was... but she was away, she was in the infirmary for the delivery and for...

HK: Yeah.

KL: She was, how long was she gone?

HK: I don't remember. Because she had, this was her... [counting] (...) seventh child that she delivered, so I think she didn't have any difficulty delivering. Probably since my grandmother Omachi was a midwife, I think she helped her. So I'm not sure even, I'm sure she didn't have the baby in our room. I think she had the baby in the infirmary. They called it infirmary, but it was just another barrack.

KL: That's right, I forgot about the midwife experience.

HK: So I think she helped her.

KL: Did your grandmother Omachi or your mother ever tell you in words what it was like to have that stillborn birth in Tule Lake?

HK: Well, no, they just said that, I remember they just said we had a baby sister born but she didn't make it.

KL: Did that experience change your mother's behavior, in your memories? Was she different after that? Or was it just more stress?

HK: Yes, she was very quiet. She was very quiet and, and she didn't say much, because I think she was very depressed. Because she had come from a fairly wealthy family, she grew up in a fairly wealthy family, as I mentioned, that she had a vacuum cleaner, all the appliances and everything. So for her, I think adjusting to that camp situation was just another difficulty for her, 'cause even after being married and then living in more, what do you say (of a) poverty-stricken situation, because my father --

KL: On the farm, you mean?

HK: Yeah, my father was just barely making a living on the farm.

KL: Yeah. And those were right after the Depression years too.

HK: Right. 'Cause her parents, the Igarashis, were against them getting married because, "Why should you marry this poor farmer?" But they were in love with each other, so... [Laughs] They thought love would conquer all, but it was a struggle for her, I think from the time she got married. (...) Her standard of living and style of living was completely different than what she grew up with.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2014 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.