Densho Digital Archive - Mitsue Nishio Interview

Densho Digital Archive
Manzanar National Historic Site Collection
Title: Mitsue Nishio Interview
Narrator: Mitsue Nishio
Interviewer: Kristen Luetkemeier
Location: Culver City, California
Date: August 13, 2014
Densho ID: denshovh-nmitsue-01

[Correct spelling of certain names, words and terms used in this interview have not been verified.]

<Begin Segment 1>

KL: My name is Kristen Luetkemeier, I'm a park ranger at Manzanar National Historic Site, and I'm here today in the Culver City, California, home of Mitsue Nishio for an oral history interview. Today is August the 13th, 2014, and Whitney Peterson is also in the room, she's operating the camera. And Mitsue, before I start asking you questions, do I have your permission to record this interview and to talk to you today?

MN: I think so, it's okay.

KL: Thank you very much for that. I want to ask you first about your parents, who were immigrants to the United States. Would you tell us, first, your father's name and when he was born?

MN: His name was Senkichi Tsujimura. He was born in Japan, Hiroshima, Japan.

KL: Do you know the year he was born?

MN: Well, gee, I'll have to figure it out, but right now I can't think. I know he was born in Japan, Meiji era, Meiji 16, juuroku-nin, that's 16.

KL: I think around 1880s maybe. Would that be right?

MN: Eighteen-some, yeah, I could figure it out. Once I did, I knew what the... I forgot about the, how I figured it out.

KL: That's okay. What was his family background? What kind of work did his family do, or what...

MN: My father's, well, my grandfather, that's my grandfather, he was son of the, my grandfather's father owned a private school called Terakoya. Terakoya means, they didn't have any schooling, public schooling then, so kids had to go to Terakoya. That's why my grandfather's father, or -- so my grandfather never went to school, but he was a very well-educated man because his father was a smart man.

KL: Would you spell "Perakoya"?

MN: Huh?

KL: How do you spell "Perakoya"? The name of the school.

MN: Terakoya? T-E-R-A-K-O-Y-A, Terakoya.

KL: And what kind of subjects did it include?

MN: Mostly Japanese and mathematics. They didn't study too much about geography or history those days, just mainly Japanese language and writing and reading, and then mathematics. They used a, called a soroban, abacus or something you call it. Have one row on the top, five little balls like that, and you move it. Soroban, they used that and they didn't have any adding machine or anything.

KL: How do you spell soroban?

MN: Soroban, S-O-R-O-B-A-N. Soroban.

KL: Thank you. I may ask you to spell a lot of Japanese words because we hope to type these and that will be very helpful. [Laughs] Who were the students in the school?

MN: You mean my grandfather's? Well, most of the kids school age went, but they didn't have to go if they didn't want to. But some parents were so poor they needed kids to help make money, so they didn't go. They didn't all have to go to school.

KL: Where was the school?

MN: Excuse me?

KL: Where was the school?

MN: Hiroshima, Kamemachi. There's a town -- [coughs] sorry, if I talk too much my, I lose my voice.

[Interruption]

MN: -- eighty-four years old. That's an old age in those days.

KL: Yeah.

MN: Almost a hundred years ago, so he was eighty-four when he passed away.

KL: Your grandfather.

MN: My grandfather. And my grandmother died, she was seventies, seventy-six, I think.

KL: Was she educated also?

MN: No, my grandmother, she was raised by a stepmother. The stepmother had a lot of siblings, I mean a lot of kids, so my grandmother never had to go to, never go to school. She was the oldest, taking care of the little sister and brother, and when she was sixteen years old she married my grandfather. So my grandmother didn't have much schooling, but she was the nicest person I've ever known. Very warm and very kind.

KL: What were their names, your grandparents?

MN: My grandfather's named Ensuke, E-N-S-U-K-E, Ensuke. And my grandmother's name is Shige. It's S-H-I-G-E.

KL: And what was their last name?

MN: Tsujimura, same as my father's name.

KL: Do you know your grandfather's father's name? Ensuke, is that...

MN: My grandfather is Ensuke.

KL: Ensuke. Do you know his father's name?

MN: I think it was Matsutaro. M-A-T-S-U... Matsu... T-A-R-O. Matsutaro.

KL: Did you meet him ever?

MN: My grandfather's father? No, no. I knew my grandfather. He was already seventies, seventy-something, so his father was gone a long time ago.

<Begin Segment 2>

KL: What was your grandparents' work?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: What was your grandparents' work? What were their jobs?

MN: They were farmers. But when I thought, when I was growing up they were too old to do anything, so they were retired. But they had a farm.

KL: What did they grow on the farm?

MN: Mostly rice. Rice and wheat, that's all. That's all, not a, they weren't a vegetable farmer, just rice. Mainly rice.

KL: And where, did your father have other siblings?

MN: Yes, he had two brothers -- no, one brother and two sisters. But they, I don't know them because they already passed away.

KL: They died pretty young.

MN: Yeah, one... my father's older brother, he went to Hokkaido, far away, because he was disowned by parents, his father and mother, because he married a girl kind of low class. So my grandfather's, my grandfather... [coughs] I'm sorry.

KL: No, it's okay.

MN: Can't talk too long. [Laughs] So anyway... what did I say?

KL: You said your father's older brother moved far away.

MN: Yes, because he fell in love with a girl that's kind of low class people, so my grandfather disowned him. So my father's older brother went to Hokkaido. You know that's the northern part of Japan. So I never got to see him because he passed away kind of early. And my father had two sisters, but they kind of passed away early, because one sister died when, the day I arrived from America to Japan. She and her husband, that time a sickness went round in Japan, I mean Hiroshima area, so they both died of the sickness. I heard that the day I arrived in Japan, they'd passed away. My husband, my father's younger sister.

KL: So was your father the second oldest?

MN: Yes, he was.

KL: What about your mother? Would you tell us her name?

MN: Her name is, before she was married her name is Kagawa, K-A-G-A-W-A. She, her father passed away when she was a year old, so her mother went back to her mother and she got remarried. My mother's mother remarried and had another family, so my mother was raised by grandmother too. 'Cause her father passed away and mother remarried.

KL: Her father was Mr. Kagawa?

MN: No, she was raised by Kagawa grandma. That time, her grandfather was gone already.

KL: And she was Shizue?

MN: Shizue, yes. She took her father's name was Yanagawa, but she went back to live with her mother's mother, so her mother's mother's name was Kagawa.

KL: Do you know her mother's mother's first name? Her grandmother?

MN: Oh gosh, you know I hardly saw her, because I don't remember.

KL: It's okay. You're remembering an amazing amount of things. It's fine. So what was her, what was Shizue's childhood like? Or what...

MN: She grew up in grandma's home, mother remarried, grandmother's home with mother's younger sister. She had three younger sisters, so she grew up with them. My mother's aunt, but she was my mother's, grandmother's three younger sisters.

KL: Were they in the countryside in Hiroshima, too?

MN: Yes, Kabe. About eight miles from Hiroshima city.

<Begin Segment 3>

KL: And you said that your father immigrated to the U.S. first. Do you know what motivated him, why he came to the United States?

MN: Well, it's a long story. [Laughs]

KL: That's okay.

MN: When my father was fourteen years old, in school, in those days teachers, they're good to educated, but they look down on poor kids. They were, he was really, the teacher was really mean to poor kids. So my father, he was a really nice man. He's always on the poor people's side and he, ever since he was little he was like that. So he got mad at the teacher and he said, "You're always good to rich kids, but never kind to poor kids," and things like that. My father pushed him in a fish pond, teacher got soaking wet, so he got expelled from school when he was fourteen. So then my grandfather sent him to work in a, they dyed materials, they, D-Y-E, dye. So he learned, he thought he'd learned enough. My father was a smart man, so he said, "I learned enough about business, so I want to start my business." So he came back to his town and started his own business when he was about fourteen, fifteen. Then, he didn't know much about it, how to save money or anything, so he went broke. So that's why he came to America.

KL: Did he have friends in this country? Or how did he know --

MN: No. That time, everybody was just coming to work, mainly work in the railroad. So he just came. He was eighteen, I guess, and he made up his mind, "I'm going to work thirty years, and when I become forty-eight I'm going to be successful and save enough money and go back to Japan." That's why he, exactly what he did. He was forty-eight years old, he made enough money and retired in Japan.

KL: He had a lot of vision. He was a planner.

MN: Yeah.

KL: Did he ever tell you what his first impression of the United States was like?

MN: Well, yeah, he used to tell me all kinds of stories when he first came to America.

KL: What stories stand out?

MN: He had been working in the railroad, so they go early in the morning and work all day until it gets dark, but they don't have enough food to go around, so when it gets dark he couldn't see because his eyes, their eyes... they called it bird's eye. I don't know, birds, when it gets dark they can't see, so they called bird's eye. So everybody held hands and walked home from the railroad. When he was, I don't know, about nineteen, twenty, I guess, he said he didn't want to be a railroad worker all his life, so he started, he started saving money and he started a little restaurant. But he didn't know anything about the restaurant business because he was a little over twenty, I guess, and that restaurant never made him any money. So he sold coffee to customers, but he didn't have money to buy sugar to go with the coffee, so he asked his friend can he borrow five dollars or ten dollars to buy sugar, and his friend said no. So my father thought he can't depend on other people. He'd have to do, work hard and make himself money. I guess that's when he made up his mind to, I don't know what kind of work he did, but he owned a restaurant.

KL: Where was the restaurant?

MN: Where? Seattle. That's where I was born. My two sisters and I was born in Seattle.

KL: Where was he working on the railroad?

MN: What?

KL: Where was he working on the railroad?

MN: Down in Seattle.

KL: And how did he connect with your mother?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: How did your father and your mother meet?

MN: They never met. She was a "picture bride." She, he sent his picture and she sent her picture and they agreed to get married. So my father just, when she arrived on the harbor, on the boat, my father takes picture and looks for a girl that looks like the picture.

KL: Did he find her?

MN: I guess. [Laughs] So they were married until he passed away.

KL: Did she tell you what that trip was like? What her, what she had, what she anticipated or what she hoped she would find?

MN: Well, my mother and I were never close because I didn't know her until I was almost fourteen years old. But my father was, he was the kindest, warmest man. He told us all the story, but my mother never said anything about how she got here. My father, my mother was very cold toward us because she never raised us. So that day, I remember the day they came back from Seattle to Japan. We went to get them at the station, train station, and my father's first words, said, "Oh, you kids have grown up so much." He had tears in his eyes and, "Thank you for coming to meet us." But my mother just stand still and didn't say anything, and she only, only thing she said, first thing she said was, "Don't tell me you came here to meet us to not to go to school. You didn't go to school today." And I said, "Today was a Sunday." She said, "Oh." My mother's first words was, "How come you're here on a school day to meet us?" My father was different.

KL: When were you born?

MN: Where?

KL: When. What year were you born?

MN: I was born in Seattle.

KL: What year?

MN: 1917.

KL: And you said you have two sisters?

MN: Yes.

KL: What year were they born?

MN: One was born in 1911, one in 1914, middle one in 1914. And I'm 1917. There was a three year difference.

KL: What are your sisters' names?

MN: My sisters' names, Yukie is the oldest one. Yukie, and the second, she spells it Futami, F-U-T-A-M-I.

KL: I see. So what are some of your earliest memories?

MN: I had a good memory. My grandparents were so good to us. My grandparents raised the three of us, and my cousin's parents died of a sickness, so my cousin was raised by my grandparents too. Actually, my grandparents raised five grandkids. My cousin, another cousin...

KL: Were these your father's parents, Ensuke and Shige?

MN: Ensuke and Shige, uh-huh.

KL: I'm sorry I keep saying that really poorly.

MN: That's okay.

KL: Ensuke.

MN: Ensuke.

KL: Ensuke.

MN: And Shige.

KL: Shige. So they raised you and your sisters.

MN: Yes, from three years old to almost fourteen.

<Begin Segment 4>

KL: Do you have memories of Seattle or the voyage to Japan?

MN: No, I didn't remember because I was only three. I'd be three in May and I think to Japan, I think it was February or March, so two, about two months before my three years birthday. So I don't remember anything then.

KL: Why did you go to Japan?

MN: Well, at that time all the people from Japan thought someday they want to go back to Japan, so they send kids ahead of time so they will know enough Japanese, Japanese education, Japan education. So a lot of families did it. I know a lot of people that were in the same situation like me, parents were over here and would work and make money, and the kids were sent to Japan and grandparents.

KL: So did your father still operate his restaurant?

MN: No, no. He didn't do too well, I guess, so he became a cabinet maker, make these things [points to a piece of furniture off screen] and desks. When I went to Seattle, when I was eighteen, a man showed me the cabinet he made in hotels. He said, "Your father was the best cabinet maker. After all these years, still beautiful." My, until my father retired at forty-eight years old, he made a cabinet.

KL: Tell me about school.

MN: My school in Japan? Well, I went to a grammar school 'til sixth grade, and from seventh grade I went to, called jogakko, girls' high school, for four years. So I graduated, I was seventeen. It's an all girls' school. There's no, there's boys' school and girls' school, no co-ed.

KL: Did you live at, with your grandparents while you were in school?

MN: Yes. The school's just walking distance.

KL: Your sisters were older than you. Was it difficult for them to leave Seattle, or did they adjust to Japan okay?

MN: I guess so. I guess they did okay. So they both came to Seattle. I came to Seattle too, then came down here and got married.

KL: Were you, while you were in Japan, were you part of a church or any sports clubs?

MN: I used to go to a Buddhist church every Sunday, Sunday school. I didn't know much Buddhist, about that. No Christian school or anything.

KL: Were your parents Buddhist?

MN: Yes, they were.

KL: What was the church like? What was its role in the community?

MN: There was three, called otera, the church, same as the church but called otera. There were three in the town, and kids used to go -- there was no Christian school or anything, so Buddhist only religion we know.

KL: What was important, what were important values of that church or what were important programs that it had?

MN: I don't know. Be kind to each other, same as Christian, but they're a little bit different. They have a, we didn't have a bible and we just went, prayer was very short one, and the Sunday school teacher played organ and teach us songs. And the, called a, just like a minister but we called, used to call her Obon-san, Obon-san gave us some kind of speech, "Be good to each other, when you die you go to gokuraku." That's same as heaven. We used to go every Sunday, but we didn't learn anything. [Laughs]

KL: What was the name, tell me again the name of the town or the area where you grew up? It was in Hiroshima, but what was the name of your town?

MN: It's, Hiroshima, it's just like California and my little town's Kabe. That's where I, my parents were born and I grew up, Kabe.

KL: How do you spell Kabe?

MN: K-A-B-E.

KL: Okay.

MN: Kabe-machi.

KL: And was it mostly farms in Kabe?

MN: No, about half and half. Some farmers, but some... there was a clothing store and food store and hardware store, little stores like that in the town.

KL: Is there anything else you wanted to hear about Kabe before I ask about coming back?

WP: Did you notice at all if the town of Kabe changed throughout your childhood, from when you were young?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: I'll repeat it.

WP: Yeah, do you want to repeat?

KL: You, how long were you in Kabe?

MN: Until I was eighteen.

KL: Did it --

MN: So fifteen years.

KL: While you were living there, did it change at all?

MN: No, it didn't change much. People -- like my grandfather, he was born there and lived all his life and died -- people didn't change much in a little town. Not only Kabe, all those people just stayed there, get married and raised family.

KL: Did, was it unusual that you were there from the United States? Did people treat you and your sisters differently?

MN: Well, you see, I was only three, not even three, so I don't remember. But I hear, my grandmother tells me they tried to feed me rice, white rice, but I wouldn't eat it. So they tried everything, they put sugar in it, then they add milk in it, then I ate it. One time I kept saying, "I want apple, apple." They don't know, grandma asked my sister, "I wonder what Mitsue's saying, apple, apple." So finally they showed a banana. I said no. They showed me candy, no, I wanted apple. So finally they gave an apple, then I was satisfied. So it's, no one knew English and I didn't know any Japanese when first I went there, so it was kind of hard.

KL: Did your sisters know Japanese?

MN: Oh, yes. My, when I went there my sister, older sister was nine years old already, and next sister was six years old. No... yeah, that's right.

KL: Yeah. So you were there from about 1920 to 1937 or '8?

MN: Yes, '35.

KL: Did you notice anything, any changes in Japan at large? I mean, Japan was occupying other areas and --

MN: When I was in high school they, there was a war between China and Japan, so I remember the war, how it started and send a lot of younger men.

KL: How did it start? What do you remember about the beginnings of that?

MN: Well, China and Japan always, they never got along, I guess. They were always fighting and one day just, I guess Japanese army just attacked China or something. When I was in high school there was a war, China and Japan.

KL: Did it change anything in your life? Did you see people leave or did you have a curfew or anything?

MN: No. My little town was just the same. And after I came back to America, I went to visit Japan when I was forty-three years old, and people didn't change. Little town, peaceful.

<Begin Segment 5>

KL: Did you meet your husband in Japan?

MN: Yes.

KL: How did you two meet?

MN: Well, he's -- and his mother's sister was married to a man in our town, so he, she introduced us. That's why.

KL: What is your husband's name?

MN: Name? Kiyoshi, K-I-Y-O-S-H-I. But we used to call him Kay.

KL: What was your first impression of him?

MN: I don't know. I was only eighteen, so I didn't think much about it. He was a quiet, nice man.

KL: How did you decide to marry?

MN: Well, kind of, my mother kind of pushed us, pushed me. My father said that -- I was the only girl left because two girls left, married already, so I was the only girl left -- my father wanted to keep me home. But Mother didn't like her children so much.

KL: So she thought it was a good idea to --

MN: Yeah, she said it was a good, she's the one pushing me.

KL: You said you called your husband Kay?

MN: Yeah, Kay.

KL: Where was Kay from? What was his background?

MN: His parents were a farmer in California, and the way that they started, they were a Papa Mama, called a Papa Mama store, little store. That's where he grew up. When he was real young on a farm, and then when he was about, I don't know, maybe eleven, twelve years old, his parents bought a little Papa Mama store, so he grew up there.

KL: That was in California?

MN: Yes.

KL: What part of California?

MN: It's southern part of Los Angeles.

KL: So how did he get to Japan?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: How did he get to Japan?

MN: How'd he get to? Well...

KL: Was he there for school too?

MN: He was nine years, he was, until nine years old, then they sent him to Japan to get a little education. So he went to high school in Japan, and I don't know how old he was when he came back. He stayed in Japan about six, seven years, I guess, and when he -- no, he didn't finish high school. But anyway, he came back.

KL: So you met in Japan, and then did you come back together?

MN: Yes. But I came to Seattle and he came to Los Angeles, because my sister used, my sister and her husband lived in Seattle. So I couldn't come to Los Angeles because they have to prove I was American citizen. My born record was in Seattle, so I went to Seattle and my husband came down to Los Angeles. Later, then later we got married.

KL: Okay.

MN: Then I came to Los Angeles.

<Begin Segment 6>

KL: So you married in the United States, back in Los Angeles.

MN: Yeah.

KL: Was it difficult to prove your U.S. citizenship? How did you do that?

MN: Well, I had a birth certificate and everything, but still they put us -- three girls came together, all eighteen years old and they're all in the same situation, born here and educated in Japan, and we came on the same boat to Seattle. And we had to stay three days and two nights in immigration, just like a jail, one room and iron, had iron bar and the door had a lock from outside. So we can go, bathroom was right next to the room so it's okay, but we just stayed in, three days, just stayed there. And meal time a guy, Filipino man comes and opened the door and we, three times a day we went out to eat. Not outside, but we went to a mess hall and had a meal, then after the meal we came back. Just like was in jail. immigration office, I guess.

KL: And that was in Seattle?

MN: Yes, it was in Seattle.

KL: How did that feel?

MN: Well, three of us got along so good that we had a good time and we didn't mind so much. Iron bar and little room and everything, but we didn't mind. The Filipino people, I guess, cooked the, at first the food was kind of strange because not like what we'd been eating in Japan.

KL: Yeah, you'd have to adjust again to different food. How did you finally demonstrate your citizenship? Why were you --

MN: They, I had the paper and everything, so they kind of went through and so it was okay. Mostly they checked our, besides the paper, eyes. I don't know how to say in English, but Japanese word's torahon. It's some kind of sickness of the eye that's very contagious, so some people sent back to Japan because of eyes.

KL: Did they, were there any other examinations? Did they check --

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Did they check anything else? Were there any other tests or examinations for health or anything else?

MN: No. No, they just told me that I was to prove I was born in America and we didn't have a bad sickness, didn't bring any bad sickness.

KL: Did all three of you leave at the same time?

MN: Yes, right at the same time. Same time. So one girl, we were all the same age, but one girl stayed in Seattle because she had a brother there. Another girl came down to Los Angeles like me, so we were good friends.

KL: Okay. So you came right away to Los Angeles, as soon as you got out.

MN: Yes, uh-huh.

KL: What was her name, the girl who stayed your friend?

MN: One, I mean, two girls came together? One is Shizue, Shizue Tanaka. One is... gosh, I forgot her name. Kiyo? I think Kiyoko something.

KL: Did you travel to Los Angeles together?

MN: No, one stayed in Seattle, another one, no, we didn't come together, because...

KL: So what year was this that you came back? What year did you come back to the United States?

MN: 1935.

KL: And then after you got out you came to Los Angeles. What happened next?

MN: Then we got married.

KL: Was that in 1935 you were married?

MN: Yes.

<Begin Segment 7>

KL: What was Kay doing in Los Angeles, for work? Or where did he live?

MN: We lived in, one year we lived with my mother-in-law and father-in-law. They had a store in southern Los Angeles.

KL: What was the name of the community?

MN: My, it's in Los Angeles, southern Los Angeles. Now, real to Watts. I didn't know then, but they are close to Watts and where a lot of black people lived.

KL: Were there a lot of black people in 1935 and '6?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Were there many black people, or, in 1935 and '6?

MN: That area, I guess, not that many. No, not that many. But that was the first time I saw black people.

KL: When you came back to the U.S. Was that a surprise, to see people who looked so different?

MN: Yes.

KL: How did you get along? Did you...

MN: Got along all right. My, some of the customers in my father-in-law and mother-in-law's store was black people.

KL: Who else was living in that area? Was it mostly Japanese Americans?

MN: No, no, they were only Japanese family there.

KL: Was that hard for them, or was it okay?

MN: Hard for them, I guess. My father-in-law, mother-in-law, they were farmers, so they didn't know much English. But sometimes I wondered how she could tell that the Campbell's soup had mushroom, chicken, all that. She knew... this was seventy years ago, more than seventy years ago, so no supermarket, not a self-service. Customers go, "I want this and I want that," and you have to get it for them. My mother-in-law, they asked her everything in English, but they know, she knew what they want. Sometimes I wanted the canned soup that comes in the, chicken soup or chicken noodle, all different, but my mother-in-law couldn't read and write the English. But she knew what to get.

KL: Yeah, that's amazing.

MN: Yeah, amazing.

KL: Did you help in the store?

MN: A little bit, because I didn't know much English either, just a little. We stayed a year, and then a year later my husband bought a little store, our own.

KL: Where was that?

MN: It was in Glendale.

KL: What was the store's name?

MN: Oh gosh. I don't know, I don't remember. Not Nishio. Hmm...

KL: That's okay.

MN: Store had a name, but by gosh, I don't remember.

KL: What was it like to have your own house? That was the first time, really.

MN: Well, this is the first time, because soon after we got married, war broke out and we went to the camp. And we stayed there three and a half years and came out, and that time we had two children already.

<Begin Segment 8>

KL: Let's back up a little bit. Where did you live in Glendale?

MN: Colorado Boulevard. 1601 Colorado Boulevard in Glendale was our store, first. But when war broke out we had another store in Los Angeles. We sold the one in Glendale and moved to Wall Street in Los Angeles.

KL: Were you still living with your parents-in-law?

MN: No, no, no. After, only, less than one year. After we bought a store in Glendale we moved out, and my father-in-law, mother-in-law kept, stayed in the same store until war broke out.

KL: I see. You have a daughter who was born in the end of 1941. Would you tell us a little bit about what it was like to be pregnant and what your hopes for your child were? What did you expect?

MN: Well, she was born November 26. In those days we stayed in hospital ten days after the childbirth, so she was ten days old, I was ready to come home, and the radio -- no television then -- radio said Japan attacked the Pearl Harbor and war started, and I got so scared. So I said, I told my husband, "I don't want to go home. I want to stay in a hospital with other Japanese people." So I stayed four more days in hospital, after my daughter was born.

KL: This might be kind of a silly question, but why were you scared?

MN: I don't know. I was just scared to come home, getting out of the hospital. So I stayed there fourteen days. And finally when my son was born in the camp, when my son was, how many days old, war stopped.

KL: Wow.

MN: So I was kind of, ready to get out the hospital again when my son was born, so I stayed in the hospital fourteen days again. So we stayed in the camp until 1945, October.

KL: Were you surprised that Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor?

MN: Yes, I was surprised. They had a little trouble each other, America and Japan, but I didn't think it was going to be a war. I guess it, attacking the Pearl Harbor surprised everybody.

KL: A lot of people. Some people said they had never heard of Pearl Harbor and they didn't know. Were you, did people's behavior change toward you? Your neighbors or people on the bus or...

MN: After the war broke out?

KL: Yeah.

MN: No, not too much. I didn't go out too much on the bus or anything. But I remember went to, I went to, by a shoe store, they didn't wait on me. They just, I didn't know what it's all about, I just sat there and wait, wait. People come in, customer comes after me, they've got to wait and they bought the shoes. But seems like, that was, nothing changed, though.

KL: That was after the war started, that you were in the store?

MN: Uh-huh. And before I bought, we bought this house, we were going to buy a bigger house with a double garage and, bigger house in Horton, and real estate said okay and so much, and the day came finally, finally my husband have to pay down payment on it. And the first time he met the owner, owner of the house, said, looked at him and said, "No, I don't want no business with Japanese." So we couldn't buy the house.

KL: That was in 1949?

MN: Yes. No, nineteen... we came out of the camp 1945, but yeah, we didn't have enough money, so saved enough down payment, so 1949 we were going to buy another house. So he was driving around and a man was building this house, so he stopped by, my husband, asking, "Are you going to sell this house or something?" His name was James Morrison, Mr. Morrison. He said no, he's building for, that time he was a carpenter, so he's making this home for his retirement. After he retire, he was going to come and live in this house. But he said, "If you want a house and you'll buy, I could sell this one. After I finish it you can move in." So we moved in.

KL: So he had no problems with you.

MN: No, no problem. He felt bad because we couldn't buy the other house. So he said, "Don't worry, I will sell you this house."

KL: When you were in the hospital after you delivered your daughter, did the nurses or the doctors change to you, after Japan's attack?

MN: Oh no, my daughter was born in a Japanese hospital, all Japanese doctor, Japanese nurse. And my son was in the camp; that's all Japanese doctor and Japanese nurse, so no problem.

KL: What is your daughter's name?

MN: Jane Michiko.

KL: Wow. That is really remarkable that your kids are kind of bookends to the, to the war.

<Begin Segment 9>

KL: What, would you tell us just a little bit about those months between, from early December of 1941 until you got the news that you would have to come to Manzanar? Do you have any memories from those months?

MN: Oh yeah.

KL: What are your memories?

MN: Right after war started, they did make the, not more than two mile way or something, and we went to camp, Manzanar, on April 29, 1945, I mean '42.

KL: And where were you living until April? You said it was in Los Angeles?

MN: Yes, Los Angeles.

KL: What neighborhood?

MN: Well, kind of mixed neighborhood. Neighbors were good.

KL: Was it downtown? What was the name of the area?

MN: Yes, toward downtown. Wall Street, 43rd and Wall Street.

KL: And you remember you had to stay two miles from your home.

MN: Pardon me?

KL: You said you had to stay two miles from your home.

MN: Yes, how many miles... yeah, we couldn't go.

[Interruption]

KL: So we wondered what the name of the hospital where your daughter was born is.

MN: Just, we just called Nihon Byouin, that's Japanese hospital.

KL: How do you spell that? Nihon --

MN: Nihon Byouin, N-I-H-O... Nihon, H-O-N, hospital.

KL: Byouin is hospital?

MN: Byouin, uh-huh.

KL: Okay. And where was it?

MN: It's in Los Angeles, Boyle Heights area.

KL: How was your care there? Was it --

MN: They were good. All Japanese nurse and Japanese doctor. I didn't know much English, so it was good.

KL: We'll have to do some research and see if any of the medical staff at Manzanar worked in that hospital. That would be kind of, it would be interesting to learn if any of the doctors at Manzanar worked in that hospital.

MN: Yeah, I guess... the doctor's no longer here. One doctor I knew was, passed away a long time ago. He was even older than me, so if he lives he's over a hundred.

KL: Yeah. And you remember him from the hospital in Boyle Heights?

MN: No, doctors in Boyle Heights, they didn't go to Manzanar. So another doctor, I guess two or three doctors, they're from, I don't know, outside of Los Angeles or something. Anyway, I didn't know when my daughter was born. My daughter was born with another doctor.

KL: So how did you learn that you had to go to Manzanar?

MN: Well, they just told us what day and where to go.

KL: Who told you?

MN: Gosh, I don't know. They just... I don't know how they told us.

KL: Did someone come to your home, do you think? Or did you read it in the paper?

MN: I think they, there was a Japanese newspaper, so maybe they said it in the Japanese news. Funny, I don't know, though. Just don't know. But everybody went to a different camp. There was ten camps, so we wanted to be in the same camp so we moved -- we were renting the house, so we moved to my sister-in-law in Glendale. We didn't want to be separated, so my father-in-law, my mother-in-law, my family, and my sister-in-law's family, another sister-in-law's family, they all got together for a little, about ten or twelve days before we went to camp. We moved into sister-in-law's house. They had a two-bedroom. There was, let's see, three of us and mother-in-law, father-in-law... six, yeah, eight people lived in my sister-in-law's house because we wanted to be together. They said if you're separated now, you'll never see each other again. That was the rumor.

KL: Yeah, that would be scary.

MN: Yeah.

KL: Would you tell us the names of the eight people who were in that house? It was you and Kay, and then his sisters?

MN: My mother-in-law, my father-in-law, his Japanese, he has an English name, George, George Nishio, the father-in-law's name. And Kino, Kino is my mother-in-law. And we lived in my sister-in-law's, brother-in-law's. Brother-in-law named Dan Mitsuno, and his wife is Mary. Mary is my husband's younger sister. And they had a little boy named Victor. Three of us, so eight people together.

KL: Was there a second sister, also?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Was there, were there two sisters of your husband's, or just Mary?

MN: No, my husband had three sisters. One lived in Watsonville and two in Glendale. My husband's older sister and younger sister lived in Glendale. And one lived in Watsonville.

KL: Where did the Watsonville family go?

MN: They went to another camp, though I don't know which one.

[Interruption]

KL: Okay, so you said your sister-in-law... Kayoko?

MN: Kiyoko.

KL: Kiyoko.

MN: And my other sister-in-law, another one, Harumi. One lived in Watsonville and another one is Mary, Mary Mitsuno.

KL: Kiyoko, did she go to Manzanar?

MN: Yes, we all went together. One, Harumi, lived in Watsonville, she didn't come down here. She just, they just went from Watsonville to camp.

KL: Do you know why they decided to stay in Watsonville?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Do you know why she decided to stay in Watsonville?

MN: She's married to a man from Watsonville.

KL: Was Kiyoko married?

MN: Yes. She was the oldest one, older than my husband. She was married and her, they lived, they had a market in Glendale.

KL: What's her husband's name?

MN: Gene Yasuda.

KL: Okay. So you all were in the house together for a couple of days.

MN: No, more than couple days, couple weeks.

KL: Oh, okay.

<Begin Segment 10>

KL: How did you prepare to leave your home? What was that like?

MN: We had to either sell or throw away or... nobody wants to buy because they can't take it anyway. We can just take suitcase. My husband carried two suitcases and I had to carry, my daughter was only five months old, so I couldn't take so much. So most of the things we just leave as it is or sell it. Just a few months before war started, we bought a new car, but we had to get rid of it. We didn't own our own house, so we had to sell everything, but some people had their own house already, like my friend, best friend, they owned their own house, so they rented the house. But they, but a couple years before they made, added on to the house, so they put everything into the other room and locked it and left it there. But we didn't have any place to put it, so we sold everything. My sister-in-law had a double garage. In those days, garage, double garage has two separate doors, so we left everything, and when we came back everything was gone. Everything was stolen. Somebody broke into the garage and stole everything.

KL: What did you store in the garage? Do you remember what you lost?

MN: Mainly the, not our own, so we had our own wedding present, like bedspread and blanket, toaster and waffle iron, everything. We couldn't take it, so we didn't, we packed it in a box and put 'em in my sister-in-law's garage. Not only our stuff, but my sister-in-law rented the house, so they put their own, their stuff in the one garage. One garage is, the people who rented was using.

KL: And I forgot to ask you, where were your parents?

MN: My parents? Was in Japan.

KL: So they had moved back to Japan like they had planned.

MN: They moved back to Japan in, let's see 1930s, so they were in Japan.

KL: And your sisters?

MN: My older sister lived in Seattle, so they went to Tule Lake. They didn't go to Manzanar. But after the, all the camp was closed, my sister came, instead of going back to Seattle they came down here. Then they lived with me a little while, until they bought a house. They rented a house.

KL: Where was the middle sister? Did she stay in Japan?

MN: No, my middle sister died way before war started. She was only twenty years old. She died over childbirth.

KL: Okay.

MN: She was a nice sister, person, but died so young.

KL: So what was that, what were those weeks like, when you were all in the house in Glendale together? What do you remember?

MN: We just, couldn't go out. We had to get, sold the car already. So we just stayed home and I guess talk and play cards, and nothing much to do.

KL: What was your mood? What did your husband think and what did you think, that you were going to have to leave? How did that feel?

MN: Sad. But American government said to do this, we have to obey. We don't have much to say because the government told us to do.

KL: What happened to the store?

MN: We sold it. Chinese people bought it.

KL: Who were they?

MN: I don't know.

KL: They weren't friends or anything.

MN: No, no, they just, I guess we put an ad in the paper or real estate or something. So they sold it.

KL: How did your neighbors react to your leaving, your friends?

MN: They, they didn't have a difference. They were so good. They feel bad to have to go because we have to sell everything. So they feel bad for us, but I don't know, I don't see any difference than before.

KL: Was it difficult to leave, to say goodbye?

MN: Oh yes. They feel sorry for us.

KL: What were your conversations like? Do you remember any talks you had with people or anything?

MN: No, I don't remember the conversation.

<Begin Segment 11>

KL: What do you recall of the trip to Manzanar?

MN: We gathered about seven o'clock in the morning, and it depends on where they live. Some people just went to Santa Anita racetrack, where they kept the horses. That's where they were waiting 'til Manzanar. And on an old broken down bus, so we left Los Angeles seven o'clock in the morning and we didn't get to Manzanar until dark almost, evening.

KL: You were on the bus all the way?

MN: All the way.

KL: Wow. Where did you gather?

MN: I guess some bus depot.

KL: What was it like at the depot? Was it crazy -- I mean, I've heard, one man told me his father drove buses from Washington to one of the camps, and his father said it took hours to load the buses because there were so many people, it was crazy.

MN: Yeah.

KL: What was it like for you?

MN: Well, soldiers with guns, couple soldiers were there, so we got on. Anyway, so a long bus ride, and they gave us lunch for, sandwich in between. But usually takes about six hours from Los Angeles to Manzanar. Took all day.

KL: Yeah, it took us four, just in our private car with no stops. Did you speak with the bus driver or with the soldiers or anyone?

MN: No, no, we didn't talk to soldiers. No, soldiers were just standing. Bus driver, I don't remember, but he was nice, I think.

KL: Was there a soldier on the bus with you?

MN: I don't remember, but maybe. I don't know.

KL: Did people, what was the bus ride like? Was it quiet, or did people talk?

MN: No, it was pretty quiet. But how many hours, so we talked a little bit. It was really quiet.

KL: Did you know anything about Manzanar, or the Owens Valley?

MN: No. That Manzanar was the middle of the desert, and when we got there it was windy and the wind was like a sandstorm, really bad storm.

KL: What was the ride like for your daughter? Was she quiet, maybe, or was she --

MN: She was quiet, but she, my... I had to travel having the nursing, so I was using the powdered milk, which I dissolved in hot, warm water. But I made enough to, for the bus ride, but at, when I got to Manzanar it was spoiled already. So she was hungry, went to mess hall, and we got there kind of dark, so mess hall's already closed. So I guess I went to the office and asked for warm water to make formula.

KL: Did they have any?

MN: Yeah, they got the warm water from the mess hall for us. Then, besides, they have to feed us. They need to, only had lunch, and afternoon 'til dark didn't have any food on the bus, so when we got there they opened a mess hall and they fed us. I don't remember what.

KL: Could you see Manzanar at all?

MN: No.

KL: It was dark.

MN: Dark.

KL: Were there lights?

MN: Not too many, not too many lights. Because it, we went April 29th, but they were still building. They were not finished yet, but they're still putting the people there.

KL: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 12>

KL: So what block did you go to when you arrived?

MN: Block 7. But we didn't stay there too long because from, I think 1 to 7 or 8, they used it for immunization building, so we had to, after about one month staying in Block 7, we moved to Block 22. Then we stayed there 'til...

KL: Who else was in Block 7 with you?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: What other people were in Block 7 with you?

MN: Lots of people. Lots of people. But at the beginning, in one room, maybe a little bigger than this one, my family, three of us, and my father-in-law and mother-in-law, and my husband's sister and her husband and her baby, so eight people living in one room.

KL: How old was, her baby was Victor, right?

MN: Victor.

KL: How old was Victor?

MN: He was about three. He was three years older than my daughter, cousins, so he was a little over three. Matter of fact -- he lives in North Carolina now -- he called me yesterday afternoon, talked one hour.

KL: Not quite as long as us, huh? [Laughs]

MN: Anyway, eight of us in one room, divided by army blanket, you know the kind of brownish, greenish blanket? Dividing each family.

KL: What was it like?

MN: Just no privacy. No privacy. But later on, they start finishing the barracks, so each family got one room. So I don't know how many months we were in one room together, eight of us.

KL: That would be difficult, I would think.

MN: And the bathroom was made of, there was barracks all over and one building was the bathroom, one is a laundry room. We used to go to, even in nighttime, we used to go to, in a storm or snowing or raining, we used to go to another building for the bathroom and shower.

KL: Did you always do that, however the weather?

MN: Always. Until we came out three and a half years later.

KL: How was it having the three-year-old and the baby as part of the eight of you in Block 7? How did that work?

MN: I guess it's okay. I guess no use complaining, so we just take it as it is. We didn't have much, we didn't have trouble.

KL: Were there Caucasians in Block 7 with you?

MN: Oh, no. No Caucasians at all. All Japanese. But one boy -- he didn't look like Caucasian, he was a little bit on the Spanish side, but he said he was the only one, he didn't want to separate from friends in Boyle Heights area, so he went to camp and he stayed there for three and a half years.

KL: Did you know him?

MN: I know who he is, but he passed away a few years back. Article was in the Japanese newspaper when he passed away, because when war started he said, "I'm not a Japanese, but I don't want to be separated from my friends." So he went.

KL: What did you think of that?

MN: [Laughs] Everybody liked him. He's a, he was a nice guy, young boy.

KL: This is --

MN: He was about fifteen, sixteen, I guess.

KL: This is Ralph Lazo?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Is it Ralph Lazo that you're talking about? Do you know his name, the boy's name?

MN: I used to, but I forgot.

KL: There was a high school student named Ralph Lazo. That, I think, is his name.

MN: That's him, I guess.

KL: He died in the 1980s and he, he was Mexican and Irish and American.

MN: Right, I think that's him. I guess Ralph.

KL: So you heard about him in Manzanar?

MN: Yes.

KL: Who else do you remember from Block 7, or from Manzanar?

MN: From Block 7 we moved to Block 22. Well, a lot of people died, since we came out of camp. Not too many people -- like my nephew in North Carolina, he called yesterday, he was a little boy, only three years old, so he doesn't remember much. He said when the war ended he came out, he was six, six or seven years old, so he remembered a little bit, but not so much. He talked about it yesterday.

KL: He did?

MN: Uh-huh.

KL: Does he ask you questions?

MN: No, not too much. He had the parents, so...

<Begin Segment 13>

KL: So when you moved to Block 22, what was your address in Block 22?

MN: Well, it's crowded. There's a long, one long barrack and one barrack was divided into four families, four rooms, so really crowded. But it was, I guess it was, we got by okay.

KL: Who was in the apartment with you in Block 22?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: In Block 22, did you share an apartment there too?

MN: Not the same room, but building, the barracks we shared with everybody. And we shared a laundry room and bathroom together.

KL: Who lived in the room with you?

MN: First was my father-in-law, my mother-in-law, and my sister-in-law and her husband and little boy named Victor, and my family three. First went to Manzanar, we lived in the same room.

KL: But then when you moved, was it just you and Kay?

MN: When they start building more and we could get one room for one family.

KL: Okay.

MN: And one barracks has four rooms, four families. They have... I don't know enough about it. Not even later days finished building the place, so each family have one room.

KL: How was that, to have a little more space?

MN: Not too big, but more privacy.

KL: Would you describe the inside of your barrack in Block 22?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: How did you set up your room? If I walked in your room in Block 22, would you describe what I would see?

MN: Yeah, they have a big sign outside. Ours was Block 22, Building 8, Room 2, so 22-8-2. That was our address, 22-8-2.

KL: What was inside? How did you set it up?

MN: Inside?

KL: Uh-huh.

MN: It's all wood floor, but has a lot of space in between, so when sandstorm comes, storm comes up from the crack in the floor. And then after the windy day everybody go out and shake -- we used an army blanket as a bedspread -- everybody's out and shaking the army blanket.

KL: Where did Jane sleep?

MN: I think we made, first we didn't have a crib, so we used a little box, I guess, apple box or something. And later, my husband was a very handy man, so he liked to make things. I have a drawer he made. So she slept in a little crib that Daddy made.

KL: What else was inside? Did you ever, did he make other furniture? Or did you --

MN: No furniture. We had an army cot, one cot with an army blanket to cover. That's our sofa. Just a bed and, at first we didn't even have a sofa, but they gave us an old cot, I guess.

KL: Do you remember any gardens in Block 22?

MN: Oh yeah. You know, Japanese people are so handy. First we went to Block 22, it was nothing but the sandstone, I mean sand, but later on we made a little garden and flowers, grew a little vegetables. But there was a pear orchard, apple orchard -- you know, Manzanar means apple in Spanish -- so there was an apple and a pear orchard, lots of... used to be there. A lot of pears, they grew a lot of pears, I guess.

KL: Yeah. We have a staff person who cares for the orchard.

MN: Pardon me?

KL: We have, on our staff there is an arborist. He takes care of the trees. That's his job. So some of those trees are still living and still produce fruit. Yeah. Did you go pick pears ever?

MN: Not too much. They didn't have so much. We just saw the tree, but we didn't see much pear.

KL: Did you have a job in Manzanar?

MN: No, I didn't because my daughter was small. But if you would you got sixteen dollars a month salary. And then, like supervisor or, they make nineteen dollars a month. But we didn't have to pay for food or housing, so sixteen dollars covered.

KL: Did Kay work?

MN: My husband? He was, yes, he was kitchen helper. He learned to make, he learned how to make apple pie and lemon pie by scratch.

KL: Did he work in the Block 22 kitchen?

MN: Yeah, Block 22. Everybody lives in Block 22 worked in the Block 22 mess hall.

KL: So I've heard some mess halls had good cooks and --

MN: Huh?

KL: I've heard that in some mess halls there was a very good cook and in other mess halls the food --

MN: Some were not. [Laughs]

KL: What was Block 22's mess hall?

MN: It wasn't bad. Pretty good cook in there.

<Begin Segment 14>

KL: Block 22, that garden outside of the mess hall, do you remember the big garden at all?

MN: Yes.

KL: What do you remember about that?

MN: Fish pond -- I have a picture someplace -- but a fish pond there. Block 22 people made that.

KL: Do you remember when it was being built?

MN: Oh, yeah.

KL: Yeah? Tell us about the garden. Could you describe it, and who worked on it?

MN: Well, people that lived in, whoever was available, each in 22 or 21, 20, each had some kind of garden because people who lived there liked to have pretty things, so they made a garden by the mess hall. And it was a nice fish pond.

KL: There's a man named Harry Ueno.

MN: Yes.

KL: Did you know him?

MN: Yeah, he was in our block, same block. There was about thirty-four blocks and I was in 22. He had a nice wife and three sons. But he was against America, so called a "no-no gumi." He's one of the disloyal to America, so they sent him to, and family, to Tule Lake, and from Tule Lake they went to Japan.

KL: He says that he started that garden.

MN: Yeah, maybe. He lived in the block.

KL: What did, you said he had a nice wife.

MN: Yeah, he had a nice, quiet wife and three sons. They all went to Japan, but they all came back. They, I guess they didn't like Japan, so they all came back, I heard.

KL: How did you know his wife?

MN: Well, because we lived in the same block, so we'd see each other three times a day at the mess hall and we share the same bathroom and laundry room. We weren't good friends, real good friends or anything, but I knew who she was. Her husband was strictly against American way, so he was...

KL: He worked in the mess hall too. I think he was a cook, like a junior cook.

MN: I think so.

KL: He also started the mess hall workers' union.

MN: Yes.

KL: Do you, what do you remember about the workers' union?

MN: I don't know, because... I don't remember those things, but I know he was very active in, like a union.

KL: How did he and your husband get along?

MN: They got along okay, I guess. They weren't good friends or anything.

<Begin Segment 15>

KL: There's another man named Joseph Kurihara, who was friends with Harry Ueno, who was a leader and a speaker in Manzanar. Did you know Mr. Kurihara?

MN: I heard his name, yeah, but I don't know. They were, we weren't friends or anything.

KL: They were both, Kurihara and Ueno were very involved in an uprising in December of 1942, the Manzanar riot, a lot of people call it.

MN: Yeah.

KL: What are your memories of the Manzanar riot?

MN: I know two people died, killed, was killed by a soldier. But I remember everybody... nothing happened in the daytime. When it gets dark everybody gets together and start yelling, and started the riot. We were afraid, so we just stayed home. But Mr. Ueno, he was the one, kind of head of those things.

KL: Yeah, he was very involved in that. Do you remember -- after, right after the Manzanar riot there were people who left Manzanar for Death Valley and other people who were put in jail in Independence and Lone Pine -- do you, did you have friends who were in either of those groups, or knew people?

MN: No, I don't. Not too many.

KL: What was it like in the days right after the riot?

MN: It was quiet. It was sad people died, two people died. But they, then they were not Block 22. One lived in next block, 21, Block 21. But it was very quiet. Only one night there was a lot of stone throwing and screaming, but only one night.

KL: What did you, what made you afraid? You said you were scared so you stayed inside.

MN: I guess it's a kind of riot, so scary.

KL: You and your husband both were Kibei.

MN: Yes.

KL: Did you, what was it like being Kibei in Manzanar? Sometimes --

MN: Well, first you have to learn English. Nisei, born... my sister-in-law, they didn't go to Japan, so they were Nisei, spoke English and everything. But we had to learn Japanese, I mean English.

<Begin Segment 16>

KL: You told us before we started the tape how you learned English. Would you tell us again how you learned English?

MN: [Laughs] By reading comics in L.A. Times and L.A. Examiner.

KL: Did you take English classes ever, or classes at Manzanar?

MN: No, because no classes. There was, I went to a little class in Manzanar because they started an English class.

KL: How was that?

MN: It was fun. But start from nine o'clock to noontime because everybody, most people had children already, so their husband works and... man works in a mess hall, wife has to come home and take care of the kids before husband went to work.

KL: Did you take your daughter to class?

MN: No, I didn't. My husband was home in the morning. They'd go and cook breakfast, but until eleven o'clock, 11:30, they're home. So my husband took care of baby.

KL: Who was the teacher, do you recall?

MN: My teacher was Margaret Minamiki. She was a teacher outside. She was a Catholic family. Her brother was a Catholic Father. And her mother, she was very good at sewing and knitting, so she had a class in afternoon, so I learned to make a sweater and stuff like that.

KL: Where did you get the supplies?

MN: They, we had a canteen. It had all kinds of material, yarn, and... they sell mostly everything to make it. So I went, the lady used to have a sewing school before the war, in Los Angeles, she went to Manzanar Block 22, so we went, I went to ask her if she can teach us how to make dresses, mostly children clothes. I'm more interested in making my daughter's clothes, so I went to her class and I think we paid about two dollars a month for the tuition.

KL: Where did she teach?

MN: How to cut the material, sewing.

KL: Did she teach in her barrack? Or was it --

MN: In her barrack.

KL: Where was your English class?

MN: English class was in, near the Block 7. Not administration... education building, that's where we used to go to English class. Not every day, though, about two, three times a week, in the morning.

KL: What else did you do with your time?

MN: I used to sew, go to sewing and knitting class. There was a library with a lot of books, so I used to go the library and the books.

KL: What was the library like inside?

MN: Inside it's just a barrack. They made a whole, handmade the shelves, men made it, and all kinds of books. There was a lot of books there. And a lot of times we don't have to cook or go shopping, do nothing, so just to sit in the shade and talk, gossip. [Laughs]

KL: What kind of books did you look for? What were your favorites?

MN: Well, any kind of book, detective or any kind of book was there.

KL: Did you read in, did you read English books?

MN: No, not then. No, I didn't know enough English.

KL: But there were Japanese books in the library?

MN: They were all, mostly Japanese. Some people, like my sister-in-law, they were born and raised here, so they borrowed the English books. But I borrowed the Japanese books. We had a lot of time on our hands. We didn't have to go shopping, we didn't have to clean the house, cook.

KL: What did you gossip about?

MN: Huh? Gossip?

KL: Yeah, what was the gossip?

MN: About everybody, all the Japanese ladies, all Japanese people. [Laughs] We'd just sit in the shade on a hot day. There's a big tree there, sit in the shade. Nothing to do, so just talk.

KL: Are there -- we've mentioned Ralph Lazo, the Mexican kid, and we mentioned Harry Ueno -- are there other people that you remember from Manzanar that were either leaders or that were close friends?

MN: No. There were a lot of close friends, but I, we became a lot of friends, I made a lot of friends in Manzanar. But most everybody passed away in sixty-nine years. There were some people older than me, younger than... they all passed away.

<Begin Segment 17>

KL: There's another event at Manzanar in February of 1943, the government passed out draft surveys to men and a leave clearance survey to women and Issei. What do you remember about that?

MN: Well, my husband... see, you have to choose between America and Japan, but, he chose America, but I don't remember too many, though.

KL: Did you and your husband talk about it?

MN: Oh yeah. He wanted to be an American. He is an American citizen, and he wanted to stay in America and be loyal to America. But other, some people said no to the question so, called "no-no" gumi, went to Tule Lake. Like the Uenos, from Tule Lake they were, they went to Japan.

KL: It sounds like it was... a lot of people did not know what would happen based on their answers. Did you have any fear about answering the questions, or did you ever consider different ways of answering them? Or was it just pretty straightforward for you?

MN: It wasn't too hard. All question was yes and no, not too many other questions.

KL: Where did you complete the survey?

MN: There was, each block, like 22 had a block office, block leader there, and the block leader and his secretary, each -- there were thirty-four blocks -- each block has a block office. That's where they would get all the information. Comes from head and block leader. Block leader explained to us.

KL: Who was the block leader in 22?

MN: My block leader was my friend's husband. He was educated here. He was Nisei. He passed away long time ago, but if he's alive he's over a hundred, hundred-something I guess. He passed away, but he was block leader. Because he, his English, he graduated high school here and Nihon, Japanese is good too, so he's bilingual. Most of block leaders were good in both English and Japanese.

KL: What was his reputation? Was he popular, or did... it sounds like kind of a tough job, to be block leader.

[Interruption]

KL: Mrs. Minimiki's?

MN: Minamiki, Minami-ki.

KL: Minamiki. And you were saying she was a good teacher.

MN: She was, she was a very good teacher. She has a lot of experience, because she was a teacher before we went in the camp.

KL: Another thing that we wondered about, we talked about the block leader and you said his wife was a friend of yours. What was his name?

MN: Frank Yasuda. Frank. I have their picture, a framed photo. His wife and I went to same girls' school in Japan, and after I came to America she got -- she's a year, exactly a year older than me, but she got married a couple years before me, so they were already living, had a little boy and were living here. And found out my husband's big sister's married to this Frank Yasuda's big brother, after we found out. And we were friends in Japan and became kind of relatives, so we were really good, really close to each other.

KL: What was her name?

MN: Her name, same as my name, Mitsue, Yasuda. Her husband was Frank Yasuda.

KL: What was she like? What was her personality?

MN: She was nice, nice lady. She, they have five children and they're all good children. She was the nicest person. That's what everybody said.

KL: Did she have a job in Manzanar, or she cared for her kids?

MN: No, no, she... I didn't have a job either. No, she didn't have a job.

KL: Where, you were far apart from your older sister and also from your parents.

MN: My, after the war she came to Los Angeles. She used to live in, my sister used to live in Seattle, and from Seattle she went to a camp called Tule Lake, and when Tule Lake closed up she came down to live with me for a little while. She wanted to, she didn't want to go back to Washington State. Too cold.

KL: Were you able to communicate with her while you were in Manzanar?

MN: My sister? Yes. We could write to each other. She made my daughter a beautiful dress and, crocheted a beautiful dress and she sent it to me. Yeah, she was a really good seamstress, real neat.

KL: Could you tell if Tule Lake was very different from Manzanar?

MN: I don't, about the same, I guess. About, toward the end a lot of people are getting, not loyal to American government, they were sent off to Tule Lake, so maybe a little bit of difference, but I guess about, the way she talked, about the same. Same buildings, same mess hall, around the same way.

<Begin Segment 18>

KL: What about your parents? Were you able to communicate with your mother and father?

MN: Not during the war. But during the war my father passed away, year before, no six months... no, a year before war ended, that was 1944, my father passed away. He was only sixty-one. And my mother lived alone. So I went to see my mother four times.

KL: You said that during the war your father had a job, or --

MN: No, not a job. He was retired, but everybody had to take a turn and watch your town. He was the one, "Look out, here comes the American plane to drop a bomb on the city." So my, they didn't have much telephone either, so my husband, my father used to, house to house, "Here comes American airplane. You better shut the lights off." At nighttime they weren't allowed to have a light because it can, from the sky, everything dark, they could see. So that's what, men used to take turns, every night they have to watch.

KL: One question that Whitney had, you said that when you arrived at Manzanar in 1942 it was dark. And then the next morning, I wondered what you thought when you looked around and you saw where you had come.

MN: Oh gosh. I cried. Yeah, because floor has a lot of openings and all the, it was so windy you couldn't believe it, so all the dust would come in. Course, it was end of April, but at night and early in the morning, so cold. They didn't give us enough blanket, army blanket, about one to one person or something like that. So it was sad, but you get used to it. Nothing you can do. And after a while we made a lot of friends and then went to English school and learned how to do crocheting, knitting. So I guess a lot of people enjoyed it after a while.

KL: Were you involved in a church at Manzanar?

MN: No, I wasn't. I was Buddhist then. I became a Christian, fifty years ago I was baptized, after I came out. But a few times I went to Buddhist temple, but I wasn't believing in Buddhist.

KL: When did you go to the Buddhist church, to the temple? Was it a special occasion?

MN: Yeah, it's a special occasion. Like over here Easter, in Japan, Japan Buddhist church has a, called hanamatsuri. They have a different thing. So I used to go once, maybe I went twice. That's all.

KL: Would you, you said it's hanamatsuri?

MN: Hanamatsuri is April 8th.

KL: What is it?

MN: Hana is flower, matsuri is a festival, so they call it hanamatsuri. They have a special thing, like Easter over here.

KL: What did people do? What was it like at Manzanar, at hanamatsuri?

MN: Well, just go to temple and kids kind of dressed up and walk around. Yeah, they used to wear nice clothes and go to Buddhist church, temple, on hanamatsuri especially.

KL: Is it for springtime, or what is the occasion?

MN: Yeah, it's April 8th, every year April 8th.

KL: I wondered what you thought of the mountains.

MN: Mountains?

KL: Uh-huh.

MN: Oh, it was beautiful. A lot of snow, snow year round. And below the mountain was a river and they used to catch trout. Some people went to trout fishing from camp. It's outside the gate, but they'd climb up the gate, barbed wire. They're not supposed to, but a lot of people, younger people did go to the other side of the fence.

KL: People that you knew?

MN: No, not really. My husband didn't, never go.

KL: I've heard that sometimes people would bring those fish back for elderly people or just special people sometimes.

MN: Yeah, would bring it back. They used to cook it in the mess hall.

KL: Okay.

MN: Mess hall for everybody.

<Begin Segment 19>

KL: The last thing I wanted to ask you about Manzanar was that you had another child while you were in Manzanar.

MN: Yes, just before the war ended.

KL: What was it like to be pregnant in Manzanar?

MN: Well, the same as, same as outside. We used to go to check-up, get a check-up every few months or something. It was nice.

KL: It was good treatment at the hospital?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: What, how was your care at the hospital?

MN: It was nice. All Japanese doctor and Japanese nurse. They were good. I got good care. I'd say everybody else did.

KL: Did you have any other questions about Manzanar, Whitney?

WP: I guess maybe we should describe her experience in the hospital or, like when she gave birth...

KL: Yeah. So we were wondering, when you were in the hospital what, can you just tell us a little bit more about what it was like there? How long were you there, who were your doctors?

MN: When I had my son? Well, we used to always, we used to stay about ten days, but like I said, I was ready to come, discharged when the Japanese surrendered and everything. So all so sad, so I said, "I don't want to go home yet." So I stayed two weeks altogether.

KL: Did you have a room by yourself, or what were the rooms like?

MN: No, no, about two, three ladies share one room. Two, three, sometimes two, sometimes three. Depend how busy hospital was.

<Begin Segment 20>

KL: So you were in the hospital having your son when the war ended. What do you remember about receiving the news of the atomic bombs and the Japanese surrender?

MN: Well, it was sad, but nothing we can do, so just took it.

KL: What did you hear about those bombs?

MN: In Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I think I heard it in the camp.

KL: They were totally new. I mean, it was the first time people had heard of an atomic bomb. Do you remember what, what did you think that they were? Or what was your understanding of...

MN: Well, my mother was Hiroshima, not in the town, but outside of Hiroshima. She said a big cloud went up and pretty soon she, she broke all the windows, because she was about, how many miles from, five, six miles from where the bomb dropped. But her windows broken, but nothing else, just the windows.

KL: When did you first talk to your parents again after the war? To your mom, I guess.

MN: My father died before the war ended, so I never had a chance to talk to him, but my mother lived, she was eighty-six when she passed away, she, when I was fifty-nine. So twenty, about thirty years, almost thirty years ago she was alive.

KL: Did you talk first in letters, after the war ended?

MN: Yes. I went to see her four times before she died.

KL: What else did she tell you about what it was like in Hiroshima during the war?

MN: She said that was terrible. My father was sick, but they couldn't even get a piece of aspirin, nothing. And no matter how much money you had, she couldn't buy a single egg or something. So she bought a chicken to have eggs. Somebody stole the chicken, because there's not enough food there. She said it was terrible, during the war and right after the war. They had, we had it easy here.

KL: Yeah, I think it's very different to be at a war than across the ocean. What was it like to be at Manzanar and watch people leave? You were at Manzanar until the end.

MN: A lot of people, not to come back to West Coast but they could relocate, so a lot of people went to a place called Birds Eye, you ever heard of Birds Eye frozen food? They make it back east.

KL: In New Jersey.

MN: New Jersey, yeah. A lot of people relocate there to work.

KL: Did you and Kay consider that?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Did you and your husband think about going east?

MN: Yeah, but my children were small and we didn't go, so just came out to California after the, after three and a half years. I think Seabrook was the place. Yeah, I knew a lot of people that relocated to Seabrook, worked in the Birds Eye frozen food place.

<Begin Segment 21>

KL: When you were still at Manzanar and you were thinking about coming back to Los Angeles, how did you feel about coming back to Los Angeles?

MN: Happy. Three and a half years we didn't see any Caucasian people, only Japanese, and in some ways it's so hard, everybody's dark and kind of ugly. So when I came home, we took a bus to General Hospital to see a friend, and all these Caucasian people look so beautiful, because I haven't seen Caucasian people for three and a half years and they have white skin and they dress nice. I said, "Hold on, I didn't notice before how pretty Caucasian people was."

KL: How was your treatment when you came back to Los Angeles?

MN: It was okay. Nobody... I told you how once I went to a shoe store to buy shoes and they didn't want to wait on me, but that was the only thing. Everybody else was, treated us the same, nice.

KL: You said that your belongings were gone when you came back?

MN: Pardon?

KL: You had stored your --

MN: Oh yes, yes, they stole it.

KL: Were you able to, you were never able to find it or anything?

MN: No. We used to, we had a lot of nice things, but... we had a market before we leave, so my husband used to collect the silver dollars, he had a cigar box full and in there I had a penny. He had that, a lot of, but they were all gone.

KL: Did you go back to his store? Do you know --

MN: No, takes too much money to start.

KL: Where did you live when you came back to L.A.?

MN: Inglewood. My friend, my block leader Frank Yasuda, they lived in, they had a three-bedroom house in Inglewood, so they let us stay there for, as a guest for a few weeks. And he had another property and a little house, so after we moved to renting, rented a house until we came here.

KL: Mr. Yasuda had a rental house?

MN: Uh-huh.

KL: Okay.

MN: He was a successful businessman.

KL: What was his work?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: What kind of business?

MN: He had that market. It used to be you sell meat and vegetable in different department, same building. He owned a business. He was a smart man and had a lot of money, so he, we're not the only family he let stay. People that came out of the camp and no place to go, they let them stay.

KL: So many families came through his house.

MN: Through their house.

KL: Do you recall when they left Manzanar?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: Do you recall when they left Manzanar, the Yasudas? Was it early in 1945?

MN: 1945 we came out.

KL: How, you were again in a new situation, a new place with a new baby. Were you, did...

MN: I was young, so I guess I didn't care too much. Nothing worrying, I guess.

KL: Did you have worries about your daughter or your son when you left Manzanar? When you came back to L.A.?

MN: They were little. My son was only two months old, my daughter was three and a half, three.

KL: Did anything worry you about being in Los Angeles and your son being so little?

MN: No. We, all the Japanese, we're not the only ones. All my friends, they all were on the same boat.

KL: Was there -- well, you said, yeah, you said you had some help from your friends finding a place. You said you had some help from your friends finding a place to live. Were there any organizations that helped?

MN: Yeah, I don't know if they're called an organization or not, but they used Japanese, they had a Japanese school there, they used the Japanese school, church to... some of the people have no place to go, and we were lucky, we had Frank Yasuda's family, but some people, they have a friend like that, had a... they called, they had a name for it. Everybody just stayed in the same --

KL: A hostel?

MN: Hostel, yeah, called a hosteru, Japanese called hosteru. That's where most people stayed, I don't know, months and months, until they save enough money to rent a regular house or buy a regular house.

KL: Do you remember the names of the hostels, of the school or the church?

MN: They, we stayed in a church, right now church, that was a hostel. And over here, I think they used, mostly used Japanese schools. Before the war they had the Japanese school, kids used to go every Saturday, or every, after public school finish every day. So they used to have, mostly have a big building, so people stayed there.

KL: What was the school's name?

MN: Over here it's Benisu Gakuen. Gakuen is a Japanese school.

<Begin Segment 22>

KL: I wondered if you, this is kind of later, as your children grew up, did they ever ask you about Manzanar or did you talk --

MN: No, we didn't, we're not the only family... everybody said the parents don't want to talk about it. Yeah, I didn't want to talk about it. All my friends say that their parents didn't want to talk about it either.

KL: Did your children ask you, or were they pretty quiet too?

MN: My son was very anxious, but my daughter, she didn't ask so much. But my son was really against what the American government did.

KL: How did he learn about Manzanar?

MN: Well, I guess he would talk to other people or read a book or something, because he was really helpful when we got the money from government. He did a lot of work, flew to Washington, D.C. and talked to people.

KL: Yeah, I would like to hear more about that. You said he was involved in redress?

MN: Yes, redress. He was very involved in redress.

KL: What was his role with it?

MN: Pardon me?

KL: What did he do for redress?

MN: Well going to Washington, D.C. to talk with President Reagan and all the congressmen, talk about it. And I have a, I'll show you a scrapbook.

KL: Hold on, hold on, we'll unhook you. Or actually, we'll look at it later.

MN: Scrapbook of all he did.

KL: Oh, I would love to see that. Did he tell you how the President responded, or people in Congress, what it was like to...

MN: Yeah, I guess they were nice, very fair.

KL: What did you think about his involvement and about the redress movement?

MN: I was very proud of my son. I always, always say it, but he's not the only one did it. There was other people got together.

KL: Did you think they would be successful, or were you surprised?

MN: Well, not, he's not so successful, but I'm very proud of him. He majored in, he graduated Berkeley and after graduation he came back to, at USC for the business administration, so he got master's. And he started UCLA for PhD, but when he was in UCLA he had a chance to go to Japan to practice, I mean learn Japanese. Japan Airlines, used to come back and forth... anyway, airplane fee, and Japanese Citizens League furnished the tuition. So he stayed there at the, called Sophia University in Tokyo. So he went to study there.

KL: What about your daughter? What is her work?

MN: She's not as active as my son, but my daughter went to UCLA and took sociology, so she was a social worker for thirty-eight years before she retired.

KL: Was, did she ask about the camps, or has she read about Manzanar too? Was she interested?

MN: Yeah, a little. Not too much. She was not even four years old when we came out. But not as much as my son. My son was really helpful, wanted to help everybody.

KL: How did it feel when you received the presidential apology?

MN: I felt good.

<Begin Segment 23>

KL: And you said you've been back to visit Manzanar before. What was that like?

MN: Well, nothing there, just, all the barracks are gone, everything's gone. Only thing left is the monument, and just a little house. But it was, brings back memory.

KL: Who did you go with?

MN: Bunch of people chartered a bus.

KL: Did you go with the church?

MN: No, I didn't go with the church, but a bunch of friends.

KL: All people who had been in Manzanar?

MN: Yes.

KL: Did you learn from each other? Did you hear things you didn't know?

MN: Yeah, most, a lot of people. Not everybody, but we used to live there together. They still have, once a year they have, they go busload. I don't know how many buses.

KL: For the pilgrimage?

MN: Yes, pilgrimage.

KL: So were you there during a pilgrimage?

MN: Uh-huh.

KL: I see. What year was it, do you recall?

MN: Huh?

KL: Do you recall what year you went? When you were there, was it 1990 or 2004 or...

MN: Yeah, a little after 2000, I guess. I went there about two, three times since I came out. Not lately, but my leg's no good.

KL: If someone is watching this who has never been to a Manzanar pilgrimage, what is it like? What happens at the pilgrimage and what is it like?

MN: It's interesting. Everybody gets together and they circle around the monument thing, then those, how do you call, the tanko bushi, they line up and they do the, like a folk dance. They all have a good time.

KL: What is the significance of that dance, of the tanko bushi?

MN: Tanko bushi. Well, the tanko is a coal mine, coal mine song. Coal miners used to sing that kind of song, I guess. It makes you happy. They do that on Nisei Week and every chance they get they do that. My son always loved it, like this. [Laughs]

KL: Yeah. I like that too. I've been three, to three Manzanar pilgrimages, I guess, and every time they do tanko bushi.

MN: Every time they, yeah, like that. Yeah, my son is better than me.

KL: Why do people like it so much? Why that --

MN: I guess it makes you happy, and togetherness.

KL: So how do you think that your experiences in Manzanar affected your later life? Do you think they affected your...

MN: Well, not too much. But I made of a lot of friends there, made a lot of friends. And the reason I became a Christian, my friend I met at Manzanar, she asked, she told us to come to church. Every occasion, she'd say, "We're having bazaar, you want to come?" So I used to go and... so believe it or not, she had twenty-five people baptized. She was, she and her husband were so good. After they became Christian, they were so thankful and they wanted to share their happiness.

KL: What was their name?

MN: Husband's name is Wataru Shimizu. They called, I guess American people called Willie, Willie Shimizu. Wife named Koto Shimizu. They were my neighbors in camp, Manzanar.

KL: And he was a minister?

MN: No, he was a businessman before he went to camp. After he came out the camp there's no business there, so he became a gardener like everybody else did. But he wasn't Christian back then. His wife became Christian first, then she made him Christian and he was so thankful for it later, so he did a lot of work to bring people to church.

KL: What is his wife's name?

MN: Koto.

KL: Koto, okay. Like the instrument?

MN: Yeah, like the same, same writing too.

KL: Okay. Yeah, sorry, I thought you were saying she played the koto. I didn't realize --

MN: [Laughs] Her name is Koto.

KL: And the church that they invited you to, is that the West Los Angeles United Methodist Church?

MN: Yes.

KL: Tell us a little bit about that church and its history.

MN: I don't know, before the war they used to, just a little, started out as somebody's house, by a few men. And pretty soon it became a church. But right now they have a beautiful church, built a few years back. They built a brand new one.

<Begin Segment 24>

KL: What else can you tell us about your life after Manzanar? What did your husband do for work?

MN: He wanted to start a market business, but it takes a lot of money, so he became a gardener like everybody else. And I was just a housewife for a while, until my kids started junior high school. Then I worked in a factory. My last job was making ballpoint pens. I was there twenty-one years.

KL: What was the factory's name?

MN: Lindy, Lindy Pen. L-I-N-D-Y. We made all kinds of pens.

KL: Did you enjoy having a job?

MN: Yeah, I liked it. But I was sixty-four and I said I'm ready to retire, and the company, well, Mr. Lindy expanded it too much, other business too, so company had, became bankruptcy. That's why everybody had to quit. I was ready to retire anyway, but I was lucky. Everybody else was younger. Some were people in fifties and forties and thirties. They had to look for a job. I was the only one didn't have to look for a job because I'm ready to retire.

KL: What about for your husband, what was it like? He had a background in business and then he worked in gardening.

MN: He was very unhappy about the gardening, but he died early. He was fifty-eight he died, when he died. Forty-eight years ago.

KL: Wow. Yeah, he was young. And you said he was unhappy about gardening?

MN: Yeah, he was really unhappy about it. But he couldn't start the business. It takes too much money.

KL: What about his parents? What were the rest of their lives like?

MN: The parents, when war started they were already ready to retire, that age, so they, everybody had to sell their business store, but they sold theirs too and went to camp. After they came out of the camp we lived together for a while, then they went back to Japan. And he died, he had cancer and he died in Japan. So my mother-in-law was left alone in Japan, so she came back to America again. She lived up to almost a hundred years old. Yeah, she was going to be a hundred years old in December, December 17th, and she died a few months before.

KL: Wow.

MN: She'd never been to a hospital. All her babies were born at home, and she'd never been to dentist. When she had a toothache she just pull that tooth, put the string on and pull it. So she'd never been to a dentist or doctor or hospital. If she lives she's about 130 years old, I guess, now.

KL: Was she a Japanese citizen for her whole life? Did she...

MN: Yeah.

KL: Boy, she was back and forth a lot. She saw a lot, I'm sure. You said you went to visit your mother several times, in Japan. What were those visits like?

MN: It was, was nice, because Japan was quiet, peace and quiet. Because I went, first time I went back was 1960, and I went back 1965 and '70 and '83. Japan became very peaceful and nice.

KL: Did your grandparents survive the war?

MN: No, no, no. They died early. My grandfather died when I was fourteen, I guess fourteen. He was eighty-four. And my grandmother died when I was fifteen. She died year after Grandfather. That was a long time ago, about eighty years ago, more than eighty years ago.

KL: Wow. You've seen a lot. And I'm excited to see your pictures, some too. [Addressing WP] Were there other things that you wanted to ask about? I just have one wrap up question, Whitney, and then...

WP: I was just curious, I'm just going to tell Kristen and then she'll, she'll tell you.

KL: I'll repeat it to you, so we can...

MN: Sure.

KL: It'll be like telephone. [All laugh]

WP: I was curious if she had noticed a lot of, any changes in Los Angeles from before the war and after when she got back here in this area.

KL: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 25>

KL: So Whitney pointed out that you came to Los Angeles as a young woman, and then you were in Manzanar for three years, and then you came back, and now you're ninety-seven here in Los Angeles. How has Los Angeles, how is it different? How has it changed?

MN: I don't think it changed too much, though. The same.

KL: Really? From 1940 until now?

MN: Yeah, about the same. People got older or people died, and new people born and everything, but otherwise I don't think much difference.

KL: How would you describe Los Angeles?

MN: Los Angeles?

KL: If someone watches this in Nebraska sometime, what's Los Angeles like?

MN: I think we have the best weather in the whole world. I've been to Europe a few times, and Israel and Egypt. I love to travel, but every time I come home, this is the best weather, best place.

KL: What are the people like?

MN: In...

KL: In Los Angeles.

MN: I guess they're okay. They're alright. I love over here. All my neighbors are nice people, weather is best around here.

KL: Yeah, we both got out of the car yesterday and, "Oh, it's so cool." It was a hundred degrees on our drive.

MN: [Laughs] Yeah.

KL: So it was nice.

MN: Where do you live?

KL: In Independence.

MN: Huh?

KL: In the town of Independence.

MN: Oh, that way. It's warm over there, pretty hot.

KL: Yes.

MN: We like it here. We don't need an air conditioner here 'cause we get, when we open the windows, all the windows, have a nice breeze come in.

KL: Yeah, it sounds like it's home to you.

MN: After sixty-five years, I get used to it. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 26>

KL: So my, this is my last question, and then if there are other things you want to share that I did not ask about you can. But you said that your, like in the 1960s, as your kids were growing up, you did not want to talk about Manzanar, and now you've been nice enough to give us --

MN: Not that we didn't want to talk about it, but I'm just, I guess the kids never asked, and we never volunteered to talk about it. I was not the only family. Everybody else, they said, "Oh, my parents talk about camp life." A lot of people, I guess, didn't like to talk about it.

KL: Why do you think that is?

MN: I don't know. It's all in, they think it's all in the past, so we live for the future and we live for now, not for the camp life.

KL: If someone does watch this tape in a hundred years, what would you like them to know about your life?

MN: I don't know, I have a pretty good life because, like I said, I became a Christian fifty years ago. So everything I do is, I thank for God. I'm very thankful He looks after me and I have a nice family. My husband passed away early, but...

KL: Do you have grandchildren?

MN: I have two, only two grandchildren. One is a M.D. at the Santa Monica Hospital, and one in Manhattan Beach, she has four children, so she doesn't work. But I have six great-grandchildren. Their pictures are over here. They're my pride and joy. We see each other every weekend, except last weekend they were in Las Vegas. I didn't go. So I'm very happy with my family. This one is my younger granddaughter's kids, and all the granddaughter's kids are over here. That's my six great-grandchildren, my daughter-in-law, my granddaughter. He's a doctor in Santa Monica, her husband. And my son Aaron, and Mia, the younger granddaughter and her husband, they live in Manhattan Beach. So we get together every weekend, so I'm very happy.

KL: Well, are there things that you thought that we would talk about today that I didn't ask? Is there anything else you want to record?

MN: No, I don't think so. I guess we covered everything. I didn't know it was so long. I thought maybe you were just going to come and talk a few minutes, so I, my friend asked me what, "I'll be there in three, I'll be there about three o'clock. You think it's okay?" I said, "Oh yeah, I'm sure everything's finished by noontime."

KL: The longest one that we have ever done was nine hours.

MN: Wow.

KL: Yeah, but that was over two days. Whitney was part of that. But often, I mean, you just have, you've seen a lot, and we really appreciate your sharing that with us because it just, it's really remarkable to be able to share with visitors what, one person's story. And I don't know that people, people understand how powerful that can be. I've talked to people, visitors at Manzanar sometimes, and they've, one person said, "Everyone you've told us about, their life could be a movie." It's just really powerful to get to hear those stories, so I'm very glad that you said that this would be okay for us to come and interview you.

MN: I hope I said the right thing.

KL: Everybody's story is different. That's part of why it's, we think it's important to talk to as many people as we can. And I know Grace and Keiko and Rose will be happy too, 'cause they all said, "Oh, you should definitely talk to her."

MN: Yeah, I know Keiko from, we all know each other from the church. And Grace is, what's her last name?

KL: Seto.

MN: Huh?

KL: Seto.

MN: Seto. Her mother and I were good friends. Her mother passed away, she was eighty-something, but we used to belong to the same club in church, so I know her.

KL: Grace likes to travel too, I know.

MN: And Dr. Seto too. And Grace's younger sister, Eleanor -- you know her?

KL: Yes.

MN: Eleanor and then Aaron Akano. And they have another sister, Caroline. I don't know her, but I know, my friend told me she has three daughters and one son.

KL: Did you know her from the church?

MN: Yes, from church. But she passed away, I guess more than ten years ago, maybe around ten years ago.

<Begin Segment 27>

KL: One of the ladies we're going to interview, actually tomorrow, her father worked for Reverend Nicholson after the war.

MN: Is that right?

KL: Did you know Reverend Nicholson at --

MN: Yes, I... yeah.

KL: What do you recall of him? What was he like?

MN: Well, see, I never had, personally I don't know, but I know who he is and I know he did so much for Japanese people. He used to come into camp and bring what we need. But I never had, personally I never talked to him. But I know who he is because he used to come to church and everybody knows him.

KL: Who were some of the ministers at West L.A. that you remember?

MN: So many. Right now it's... I used to belong to a Japanese congregation, not the English one. English congregation they have more people. They have Reverend Gary Oda, and his wife is a Caucasian lady. She's a minister also. But I belong to the Japanese congregation. I was there for about forty years, because fifty years ago I got baptized, but recently, ten years, about ten years I'm at the Venice church. I was at the West L.A. for years. Many minister comes and goes.

KL: Does the Venice church have a lot of Japanese heritage too?

MN: Well, not as many as the West L.A., I think. Right now it's getting less because younger people moving out and older people passed away. Last year four people passed away, because they were all my age, three of them my age and my brother-in-law, my sister's husband, he passed away. He was ninety-six. Last year he died. So it, older people dying and so right now not too many people go to church.

KL: Was the Venice church a hostel too?

MN: I think so. That time I was, belonged to West L.A. Church, so I think most churches and most Japanese schools they used for hostel.

KL: I know people from Venice came to Manzanar, and interviewed other people who...

MN: Yes. West L.A., almost everybody went to Manzanar. That's why Reverend Nicholson used to come and visit us all the time.

KL: Yeah, he was unusual, in an usual position, being a Caucasian minister in a Japanese American church.

MN: Yeah, he was so good to Japanese, not only in America but in Japan too. They have a name for him, Yagi no Ojisan. Yagi is a goat. He used to send a goat by boat so kids have goat milk, so they called him Yagi no Ojisan, Mr. Yagi. Yagi is goat.

KL: I didn't know that.

MN: Yeah, they called him -- I had a book that he wrote, but I got rid of most all of my books because after I hit ninety I didn't want to keep everything. So I gave most away. The other day my younger friend came, so I gave her, you ever heard of Rick Warren? He's a minister at, his book I bought it, in Japanese. And I finished reading, so I gave to one of, a girl. I'm getting, little by little, giving away. I think Reverend Nicholson's book, too, I think I gave away.

KL: Well, I think we'll turn this off 'cause I do want to see the pictures, if you're willing to share those with us. But again, thank you for...

MN: I gave a lot of pictures away. At the West L.A. a historian was collecting pictures, so I gave a lot of 'em away.

KL: Is that someone at the church?

MN: Yes, his name is Randy Sakamoto. He's a Sansei and he was, he was a historian at the church. So he asked everybody if there's a picture they want to share with other people.

KL: Yeah, that church, I know, has been just a really important institution for a long time, and it's been really wonderful that we have a relationship with each other. It's really great to have members come and visit, and to know people here in Los Angeles to help with the interviews and everything too.

MN: It's a nice church.