Densho Digital Archive - Willie K. Ito Interview (denshovh-iwillie-01-0016)

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KL: In Manzanar I've heard a lot of accounts that it was typical that there would be more Issei or more Kibei people working in the mess halls, and I don't know, do you think that was true of Topaz, or do you have a sense for that?

WI: Well, that's true, too, because if the majority of those in camp favored Japanese cuisine, leaving it up to the Isseis and Kibeis would be a good bet. Because most of the Niseis... although that age group, we all grew up eating Japanese food, but how proficient they became as chefs, that's the question. But the Isseis were available to work in the mess halls. And so I think that would have been the logical thing. And the Kibeis also were very well versed in Japanese cooking. It was kind of a funny period because the Kibeis and the Niseis, they really get together. Technically my father is a Kibei, Kibei-Nisei.

KL: Yeah, where did he fall in that dynamic?

WI: Most of his friends were like the older Niseis. And as I recall, after the war, his customers at the barber shop were older, mostly Isseis. But for some reason, the younger Niseis and the Kibeis, they were like night and day. They didn't really get along, play together, and the whole bit. And then, of course, later -- I'm kind of jumping ahead -- the 100th Battalion out of Hawaii and the local Niseis that were in the 442, they didn't get along either. And at that time when they said, okay, we're gonna put all the Japanese Americans in Camp Shelby, Mississippi, to train together, the Japanese community said, "Oh, the kanakas and the kotonks, they're not gonna get along at all." And sure enough, when they were pitted together at Camp Shelby, there was that animosity between them. But in war you just merge together, and of course, history-wise, the most decorated unit of the war, such a proud outfit that it's a legacy that for us younger guys, we can be proud of.

KL: You said your dad's friends typically though were Nisei, not so much Kibei friends?

WI: Right, right, yeah.

KL: So back to the 442nd commentary you were giving, did you have anyone in your life who volunteered from Topaz, or were you acquainted with people who did military service from the camp?

WI: Yeah. I can't recall anyone from... someone that I knew closely in Topaz. I became more aware of the 442 later. While I was in camp, I had no idea or even recollection of any mentioning of it.

KL: Do you remember any, I mean, again, you were really young and I would have picked up on this as a kid, but do you remember any conversations about older people's attitudes or even kids' attitudes toward that question of whether it was appropriate to volunteer or do the draft?

WI: Yeah, not so much at that time. I remember Sergeant Ben Kuroki's name being bantered around, and he was making the rounds of the camps to propaganda and try to get a lot of volunteers and all that, you know. And there was a lot of criticism about that. But outside of that, the exploits of the 442 weren't really that publicized while I was there in camp. I'm sure it was being talked about with the older generations that would hear about it.

KL: Yeah, Ben Kuroki came to Topaz.

WI: Oh, he did come, yeah, okay. I kept thinking I do remember the hoopla of this "hero." But I wasn't too much into war games, more cowboys and Indians and cops and robbers. Once in a while, recreation-wise, they would run wartime movies at the recreation hall on Saturday nights, it was one of those John Wayne wartime movies. And we would, of course, root for John Wayne. We would hiss at the Japanese flag on the screen, yay, and so... it's funny with kids and their mentality and whatever. But yeah, those were some of the things that I remember as far as the war was concerned.

KL: Where did your grandparents live in the camp?

WI: Well, let's see. The camp was divided into sections, and it was Mountain View and Desert View. And even the schools were called Desert View school and Mountain View school. And I think, if I recall, we were in the Mountain View, but that's all I can remember. [Laughs]

KL: Were your grandparents in the same block as you?

WI: No. They were in a different -- oh, I'm sorry. Same block but different barrack.

KL: Okay. And so that garden was pretty close?

WI: Oh, yeah, yeah, we used to go visit. I used to call them Ojiichan and Obaachan, go over and visit. One of the things I remember is whenever we visited my grandparents when we were in San Francisco, is they would always have treats for us. So even in camp, even though how scarce it was to get certain things, they would always have a little treat for me, a piece of candy or whatever. Because, you know, as you know, we had the canteen that you could go to and buy a few things and whatever. But it was fairly vivid. Catalog, my mother being Americanized, Christmas was a big deal. So before camp, I would hang up, my sister and I would hang up our stockings, and the next morning the stocking would be brimming over with little tchotchke things, candy and things of that nature, candy cane. And even in camp, with the limited resource and everything, my mother managed to, we would hang our stockings. We couldn't hang it on the stove because that stove was going full blast. But somewhere near the stove, and my mother would say, "Well, Santa Claus is going to come through here," and I would get a stocking full of goodies. And I guess they would order through Sears & Roebuck catalog all kind of toys and goodies. They try to maintain as much normalcy as they could. So that was good for them, because in retrospect, I think, god, that took a lot of effort. My dad as a barber made, what was it, nineteen dollars?

KL: That was the top end, typically.

WI: Oh, then I don't think as an apprentice barber he would have got that. But whatever he got, it was put to good use, I guess you might say.

KL: Yeah, that's a testimony to their caring.

WI: Yeah.