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KL: You described a roll call sort of, or like attendance in the evening at Tanforan as part of the daily routine. Was there anything like that in Topaz, a curfew or a count?

WI: Yeah, at the beginning they were, they still needed to monitor everyone, make sure everyone was there, whatever. But of course, by then, you're right in the middle of the desert, and the closest town is sixteen miles away, of all desert. So if anyone wants to get out or attempt escape, what are you going to do? But yeah, they did come around.

KL: So that was at first, and then that...

WI: Yeah, things sort of started to get a little more lax.

KL: What about any encounters with the MPs or guards or anything in Topaz?

WI: Well, you heard of that one story of the guard that shot.

KL: I have. Do you recall, do you have recollections of that happening?

WI: I heard various versions of it, like the guy's dog just sort of got away from him, and the dog was running towards the barbed wire fence. And he was just chasing the dog and the guard said, "Halt, halt," but it turns out he was hard of hearing. I don't know if... that's the way I kind of heard it. I heard different versions of eventually, and then he got shot.

KL: Did that have an impact on your behavior or your attitude?

WI: Well, when we first heard that, we were, said, "Okay, don't go anywhere near that barbed wire fence. It's dangerous, the guards are trigger-happy," and a lot of them, they just wanted to... but as it turns out, we never had a close encounter with the guards like Tanforan where they were right there and we would be able to interact with them. They stayed, did their things, changed the sentry, next there's another guard, who knows? But never did. One of our very early encounters when we were able to leave camp to go hiking or go looking for arrowheads in the sand and whatever, we would pass by farmlands, and the farmers would be out in the field and would see us coming and just read the riot act to us. "Get the hell out of here, get back to camp." And that was intimidating, because these guys were real farmer, roughy types, and when they're yelling at you with profanity, it's like, oh, gee, I don't want to be anywhere near these guys. And I guess even going into the town of Delta, you still had a lot of rednecks, I guess you might say, that would see us. So it was kind of impressions that I...

KL: What would they do? Was it similar to the farmers' behavior? What would the people in town respond with when they saw you?

WI: Some of them would kind of glare at you, some of them would say things like, "You're a Jap," kind of, not yelling it out, but you know. So it was uncomfortable to go to camp, or go to town. But especially for grownups, as a kid, maybe you're a little more immune to the subtleties of it. If they're screaming it out, then you go, oh. But if they're subtle about it, adults could catch it but kids, it goes right over your head.

KL: How frequently did you go into Delta?

WI: Well, I think myself personally, I spent more time heading out into the desert hiking and looking for arrowheads. There was a lot of adventure actually being out in the desert. So going to town was not a big deal for me because the adults needed to go shopping and I didn't want to go shopping. If I had an opportunity to get real ice cream cone in Delta, then I said, "Hey I want to go." Because the ice cream we got was ice milk, so that rich, creamy ice cream was... so when we finally left camp, my uncle, the one I was telling you about, was working at the Golden State ice cream factory in Salt Lake City, so we went there to visit, and I got my first real true ice cream cone. On, I still remember that first lick, oh my gosh. This is really something. Then, of course, I was older then, too, to appreciate it more.

KL: Near Topaz there was a former CCC camp, what was its name, Antelope Springs, about 90 miles west of the camp? Were you ever there, or it was more local, when you would go out into the desert, you would just kind of go from camp and look around.

WI: Yeah, right. The CCC, what was that?

KL: It was a former camp from the '30s for the Civilian Conservation Corps. But then I guess -- Manzanar didn't have anything like this -- but Topaz, it became part of Topaz and it was like a place where people could go tent camp or hike or whatever.

WI: No, I was unfamiliar with that.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.