<Begin Segment 10>

KL: You guys eventually did have to leave, though. Where did you go and how did you get there?

WI: Well, I remember that day that we all packed up, and, of course, you could only take what you could carry with your two hands. And just down the block was a school. I don't remember the name of the school offhand, but that was one of the disembarking centers that they had the buses lined up, and then they had military guys in full uniform actually carrying rifles, big guys. And here we are all like this. And one other thing is in San Francisco, we always dressed up. So the men had on their little hat and a black suit, dark suit, my grandfather was wearing his Sunday best, my grandmother was wearing a coat with a sort of fur trim, a collar. And so we all lined up and we got on the bus, which took us to Tanforan, which is the horse racing track. Similar to like a lot of our Southern California internees went to Pomona fairgrounds or the Santa Anita racetrack, and so Topaz was our first camp. And, of course, you know, we were put there during the duration of the building of the camps.

KL: Had you been to Tanforan before, to the racetrack?

WI: No. And then afterwards... not to go for horse racing, but I think Tanforan used to have circus or some sort of activity of that time. And, of course, it's gone now, and Tanforan is now a shopping center. But they do have a memorial there that says "The former site of Tanforan."

KL: What did you see when you got there?

WI: At Tanforan? First thing I remember was the smell. Because they took us to the stables, because the barracks on the infield was still being built. So the early evacuees had to stay in actually the horse stables, which reeked of horse manure, huge horse flies flying around, and then, of course it was dirt and then the stench, because it wasn't really cleaned out. If they hosed it before we arrived, it's not going to take care of the stench. And then, of course, they had folding cots, army-issued cots. "Where's the mattresses?" Says, "Well, those white sacks over there, you fill it up with the straws that are piled up in front of the stables," and filled up your own mattresses, so you virtually slept on straws. And God help if you had any kind of allergies. But that was the very first encounter. And again, I'm eight years old, and I'm sort of looking at this as some sort of adventure, going to a camp or something. But then the realization soon hits when you see your grandparents and your parents going through such anguish.

KL: How did they respond, can you describe their...

WI: They couldn't believe that this is where we're gonna be living. One little lightbulb hanging there, no shades or nothing, you had to make your own cardboard shades. And you had to scrounge for wood that's left over from the barracks being built inland to make a little table, to make a little chair or whatever. And fortunately, Tanforan, the climate isn't as bad as what we eventually experienced in Topaz.

KL: Who was in your unit in Tanforan?

WI: Well, our immediate family, and then a lot of our neighbors who I don't remember now were also from the community. So everyone more or less knew each other.

KL: Was it like a room where you guys were, or a stall?

WI: It was a stable, yeah, a stall, basically a stall.

KL: And were your neighbors in there with you?

WI: The next. So if Seabiscuit was in one, and then next to it was whatever horse. It was basically that. So it was very community.

KL: In your stall, who was there?

WI: Just my mother, father, sister and myself. And then I think my grandparents and my uncles were in the next one. Or maybe not, because we weren't necessarily evacuated as a group. I think they went by some sort of alphabetical system or whatever. So we didn't really travel together or whatever. Because some of the things I do recollect is when we arrived on open truck to Topaz, the alkaline dust that was blowing around, the black suit that my grandfather wore, the shoulders, it was all white, his hat was all white with dust. We were just covered with dust.

KL: Let me ask a couple more questions about Tanforan if that's okay.

WI: Sure.

KL: What was a daily, were you guys in that stall the entirety of your time at Tanforan?

WI: We had a tight curfew. So in the evening I don't remember the exact time, but there were fellow internees that were relegated to be block police or those that went and with a clipboard, took roll call.

KL: Every night?

WI: Every night, yeah. Make sure we were all there. And then right outside, they had the wire mesh fences where you had the military with rifles marching up and down patrolling to make sure. And so the roll call was pretty strict. We had to be there in our stalls and give a head count.

KL: What about during the day? What did you do during a typical day?

WI: Well, as kids, we ran around the place, visited other friends in other stalls. Some of the men took mess hall patrol and did cooking and things of that nature. We weren't too sure how long we were gonna be there. I think the older people knew that this was just a temporary stop. So they didn't make any efforts to do any sort of camp improvement, just to try to keep it decently clean. So I guess a lot of people were on the cleaning patrol as well as kitchen patrol and whatever. But then I think it was shorter, maybe six months that the camps inland was ready for occupancy.

KL: Do you know what month you arrived at Tanforan?

WI: February, I believe.

KL: So there was no school or any kind of a daily routine?

WI: With the kids they tried to maintain some semblance of order by having classes and all. So I remember being herded to one of the completed barracks that had tables and chairs set up, and they tried to continue doing schooling, so there was schooling and all. And, of course, religious services at Buddhist church. See, a lot of the Buddhist ministers or reverends were sent up to Tule Lake because they were considered subversive. And so Buddhist churches and all that didn't really have ordained reverends conducting the things. I guess the true Buddhists had their own service and did whatever they can.

KL: Did you guys have visitors at Tanforan ever?

WI: I think so, because I remember some of my classmates bringing gifts and all that. Now, I don't know if that was like a formal visiting session or... a lot of them came and we would meet through the fence. And, of course, the patrol guys would come by and they had rifles, and we were all kids, so we were fascinated. And some of the guards were very friendly and actually sympathetic, and would let us touch the rifle and talk to us and all that. So I do remember some of the kind guards. I think a lot of the guards, you know, they were thrown into a situation themselves that they weren't really familiar with. A lot of them had never actually seen a Japanese person, and suddenly here they're confronted with guarding all of us. And like maybe watching some old wartime movie that we were barbaric savages that would cut their throats.

KL: That's interesting that you had some interactions, though, with people as individuals.

WI: Yeah, right.

KL: Did you... this would have to be kind of looking back on it, but did you observe any coping mechanisms that your parents or your grandparents employed? Did their demeanor or behaviors change and how, if so? I mean, I don't know that I would have picked up on that as a seven-year-old.

WI: Well, yeah, that's true. But you know, I'm sure... well, their attitudes changed. They were in the situation they had no control over a happy life like we experienced on New Year's and Cherry Blossom Festival, those things were like, "Are we ever gonna have that kind of an experience ever again?" And so, see, I tried to put myself in their place at that age. So if that happened to me now, I mean, it would be such a horrendous to suddenly lose your home and separated from all your kids and grandkids and not knowing what the future is going to bring. But that would have been horrendous, and I think a lot of my friends still harbor that resentment, especially those that were older that was going to university or even high school to have it totally interrupted. And then not knowing am I ever going to get a degree, and ever going to be able to find a good job. So it's not knowing.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.