Densho Digital Archive - Minoru J. Shibata Interview (denshovh-sminoru-01-0028)

<Begin Segment 28>

KL: So back to things related to the Japanese American World War II experience, I wanted to ask you about the redress movement in the 1980s, there was this movement for redress. I wrote to you, that you guys were kind of in a unique vantage point for that movement, and I'm curious to know your thoughts on the movement for redress and on the outcome, were you involved at all or what you thought of it.

MS: Yeah. The movement was... it's political, and it was monetarily beneficial to the recipients. But money itself is not going to make up for just the physical loss, loss that way in that sense. It's more important that, again, the character transformation of everyone, all citizens, which is more important, but that's almost impossible.

KL: Yeah, I was going to ask you how that made you --

MS: But something is better than nothing, and the amount is not trivial, so that's okay, too.

KL: Did you guys receive any aspect of the finances or the presidential apology, or did your father?

MS: I received, my sister did, but I did, too. But unfortunately, my father and mother, they were the ones who should have received it. But that's the way it goes, anyway. So I don't have too much more to say about that issue. Was there other issues that were presented by other people?

KL: Everybody's response is different to that question. Some people, I know one guy who refused the payment when he was younger in camp and he eventually... the redress had kind of three parts, the payment, the apology, and then there was money set aside for educational efforts, and that's still going on. Some people thought it was inappropriate to attach a monetary part. Some people thought it was, and then like one woman said that she had a conversation with the doctor, she was going to refuse the payment and he said there are elderly patients who... whether the amount or the money at all is appropriate, they can use this money to pay medical bills that they need to pay and wouldn't be able to otherwise. And so that caused her to think differently. Some people took the money and bought a car, some people think the apology was the important part and they're glad that that happened. A lot of people, like you say, "I wish my parents could have seen any of this," because they had already died. One man in our film says, "It lifted a weight off my shoulders, I'd always felt like a second class citizen, and having that acknowledgement did change things for me personally." It's a spectrum, everybody thinks differently about it.

MS: Yeah, I guess so.

KL: What about Terminal Island? This is a weird -- like many of the questions are weird to ask if I know the answers, but have you returned to Terminal Island?

MS: Two or three times. But the place is so physically empty now that it doesn't give you any idea of the history of the area. Just recently I thought it'd sure be nice to build a real estate community, you know, build more houses so that people could form a community there again, but I'll never happen. Because it wasn't such a bad area to live in. But if you go back there now, prison's there, the navy bases there, but what else of significance is there?

KL: Were you involved in the monument that's there at all?

MS: I know where it is, but no, I wasn't involved in that at all.

KL: What about the, there's an organization the Terminal Islander's Club. Have you had any involvement with them or been to any of their events ever?

MS: No, basically I haven't been interested in any kind of a get-together, even high school or any schools or any clubs or anything like that. So that's been my habit.

KL: We were talking during the break from recording about your visits back to Manzanar National Historic Site and how you've kind of become involved in Manzanar. When did you first visit Manzanar National Historic Site?

MS: (At one of the) Fukuhara workshops with Beth. Did we go there before?

KL: Beth said before it was open officially, on a trip to Mammoth you made a stop there.

MS: Oh, did we? Okay, I forgot about that then.

KL: We won't talk about that one. [Laughs] Tell us about the Fukuhara workshop. What is it and what's it like?

MS: Okay, I can't tell you too much because I'm just going with Beth and just enjoying the area and visiting Manzanar, visiting and kind of knowing, starting to know more about Manzanar and people who were there.

KL: What's your response to either Manzanar just as a place, or to the National Park Service presence there or the exhibits? What do you think about Manzanar?

MS: I think it's great. Everybody, the people there, and you folks are monitoring or managing the place, I think it's really serving a real great purpose.

KL: Why do you think it's important?

MS: Well, I suppose so that people will not forget ourselves, what we are like unless you remember these things. It helps, I guess, to convert people to become a better person. And if you just forget about this, it's gonna repeat, which it has been in other countries.

KL: Has there been any time in your life when you see a similar dynamic to what it was like after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor politically or socially? Has any later time reminded you of your family's experience in the '40s? Do you worry that this... I mean, it sounds like you think it's possible, people are capable of whatever and we could do something similar again as a society? Have you ever sensed that danger?

MS: Yeah, I think, again, it goes back to what I talk about in aikido training, that things will keep repeating until people themselves change. And I suppose that's the big issue, how to do that. It's almost the same as with my aikido training, how do we, or how do I do it, and what do I teach so that people will get on this founder's path. And it's not a trivial problem. Somehow, like one of the rituals that we try to follow, which is a ritual telling ourselves that, calm your spirit, calm your soul, and return to the divine, we practice this ritual. It's telling you somehow you left the ability to do so, get back there and start over. And so it's something we try to remember to practice and kind of pass on to other people. You have to change, every individual has to change, and that's a big order. That's why, I guess that's why parenting is so important.