<Begin Segment 26>

KL: If you don't want to talk about this, I understand, but you said your mom had developed schizophrenia in your absence. And I wonder sort of how she coped with that and how others coped with that, how that changed things for you?

MS: Yeah. What was terrible about that besides getting into that condition was that my father, even talking with talking with acquaintances, couldn't find a doctor who spoke Japanese. And so that we took a long time before we understood what her condition was. And, well, I think that if she could have spoken to the doctor, or the doctor could have interrogated her and made a more precise diagnosis, we would have known what her condition was to begin with. Because I didn't know what schizophrenia was and how people, how it affected people. So that it was a terrible thing going through her symptoms or whatever, you know, and not knowing what's really causing it, it would drive anybody crazy just to be around and not understanding why that person was acting that way.

KL: Would you be willing to tell us how she changed, what her behavior...

MS: Oh, yeah, schizophrenia people hear voices accusing them of something, or something very negative. So the tendency is to yell back at them as if it's a real voice that they're hearing. And afterwards, way afterwards, after I found out what that condition was and what the cause is, I hear a lot of people with that, showing the same symptom. Even when I was working at Hughes, when I was sitting in the bathroom, and here comes somebody in yelling and screaming. Otherwise, the person's technically competent. And I used to see people walking down the street yelling and something like that, back at somebody. Otherwise, they're fine.

KL: And people still struggle with it, I think, in the medical community, diagnosing it and how to treat it.

MS: Yeah. Well, the thing is, I don't know how they treat, the specialists treat people with schizophrenia. I still don't know. But I'm sure that, okay, when I think about that, I'm sure that there were other people going through the same experience or otherwise among the evacuees. Having gone through some kind of stress, or maybe it was just a natural occurrence with some people, I don't know, who have the same condition, but they're not talking about it. Because we as a family at that time also felt shame in having someone in your family getting into that kind of a condition. So you don't talk about it to your relatives or anybody, only the people who knows about it directly, just knows it and don't talk about it. And same thing with me, I didn't know what the condition was, and I thought it was uncurable, a permanent situation.

KL: Were you ever able to get any treatment for it or any...

MS: Not that I know of. Because I think the condition lasted through her dying days.

KL: I think you're, there's not been a lot written about psychological effects on people after the camps closed and after the war ended and the removal order was lifted, and that's why I'm pushing you on it. I appreciate your being able to talk about some of this. It's got to be really difficult, I think it is important to try to record some.

MS: No, that's okay. Because I think that others have probably gone through it. Because no one talks about it, you don't know what kind of, what stress might cause. Or maybe some people just, without stress will get into that condition. But at least if you know what it is, you will find the proper person who might be able to, not correct, but to treat or ease that situation. But like I said, nowadays, I recognize other people with that condition and they're all over.

KL: What else has been important to you in your adult life?

MS: Let's see...

KL: Maybe either career history or family life, one and then the other?

MS: Oh, yeah. Being, getting a very satisfactory occupation or job. You know, this equal opportunity stuff still exists. And then it was much stronger when I got into the workforce, and you keep running into one company after another, and it seems like even today, there's no ideal company. Maybe you have. [Laughs]

KL: The National Park Service is fantastic, but even it is not perfect or ideal all the time. [Laughs] I haven't had experience with the perfect...

MS: That I would consider which was completely unsatisfactory. Also finding schools in higher education was very disappointing with the schools I went to. I expected great professors and great universities, but that's not necessarily true. And what really triggered my anger was that you are paying for this education now, it's not a public given education. And you're paying for crap. That's what really upset me.

KL: What did you try to study?

MS: I started with trying to become an engineering major. And then I switched to physics, then I changed to math, and I graduated as a major in math and I didn't go any further.

KL: Where did you graduate from?

MS: USC. And even if I wanted to continue with graduate work, then I would have to make up a lot of deficiencies, so I just quit there. But that experience was very disappointing. I think that the same quality of education that I started with at a junior college, San Mateo junior college -- well, it's not called junior college any more, right? It's a community college, San Mateo community college.

KL: But it was good quality?

MS: Yeah, but I didn't complete, you know, I just had maybe one and a half years of that and then I transferred to a bigger university.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.