<Begin Segment 15>

KL: And when you went to junior high school, as far as ethnicities and backgrounds, was it a more diverse school than Terminal Island?

MS: Oh, yes, okay.

KL: How was that?

MS: It was interesting because we started meeting people from European countries, if their parents were, immigrated from you name it, from Europe.

KL: Were there similarities or differences that you picked up on between their and your family's experience?

MS: No, only by physical appearance is all. All of a sudden we started seeing a lot of blondes, you know, blond all over, right? Eyebrows and all. And yeah, different people from different ethnic groups. So it was interesting.

KL: Did friendships, were friendships bounded by ethnic groups, or was it more you found a personality?

MS: It was all mixed, yeah, it's all mixed. Just like when I was in the army, we all were, had the same purpose of being in the army. Of course, you formed more friendships with certain people, but we didn't run into too many obnoxious type people who didn't want to be friends with you. Only one incident I remember is one guy who happened to be a Filipino, had a bad experience with the Japanese from Japan, well, during the war. So he was going to take it out on me, okay. And started to get aggressive about me, and I felt it immediately. But otherwise, everybody got along?

KL: What was your response to that person?

MS: I didn't respond, I just got angry inside. But I suppose I could've just responded by challenging him to engage in a fight or whatever.

KL: Yeah, I always think it's interesting when the people who left a particular society get attacked for that society's...

MS: Oh, yeah. And I could understand their feeling, because they went through a terrible experience under the Japanese army. So it's understandable, yet they should realize that they're not dealing with the same people just because we look the same. That's the only thing I had against that person. And the funny thing later that happened was that when I started meeting more people from the Philippines as a civilian later, they asked me, am I from the Philippines, because I must have some features of Filipinos. And when I say no, they're surprised, but no hostile feeling. They had good experiences otherwise with the Japanese people from Japan, so they were very friendly. And more than one person from more than quite a few came to me and asked me whether I was from the Philippines.

KL: That experience with that junior high school student, you said that was the only time you really felt race-based animosity?

MS: That was in the army, not at the junior high school.

KL: But were there any other experiences in junior high school where you felt any animosity based on your background?

MS: No, no. As a matter of fact, at the junior high school -- I should say middle school, I can't get into the habit of saying middle school -- I was chosen to be the homeroom leader. The homeroom leader's to make sure that in any assembly, to make sure that your homeroom students were in the proper place and behaving properly. So the people from Terminal Island, the Japanese people, had a pretty good reputation school-wise.

KL: Beth, are there things you think I should be asking about from this prewar period and Terminal Island and their stories?

Off camera: Did you have a friend who was a, became a dentist from Terminal Island?

KL: A friend who became a dentist from Terminal Island?

MS: Oh, yeah, yeah. I met him after I moved to Southern California and found out that he was practicing in Long Beach. His name was Katsumi Izumi, Dr. Izumi.

Off camera: They lived nearby, they're from Terminal Island?

MS: Oh, yeah, yeah. And he was in my class in Terminal Island. So anyway, that's when I started going to him for my dental work. But he retired years ago, I think something happened to him physically, so he retired. I thought it was earlier than normal, normal being because they want to retire. And the last I know is that he was living in Long Beach. Yeah, I'm sorry.

KL: There was, was there something else I should ask about that?

Off camera: Well, the great skiff story. Going out on a skiff with a buddy?

MS: The which?

Off camera: When you're going out beyond the breakwaters on a skiff with one of your friends?

MS: I thought I mentioned the, yeah.

KL: He did talk about the waves.

Off camera: I thought that was in... never mind, that was in a different context.

KL: You were showing us a yearbook from Manzanar, too, that you said a friend from Terminal Island collected. Who was that friend?

MS: His name is listed in your book at Manzanar. Last name is Murata, M-U-R-A-T-A, and first name is quite long, Takehiko, everybody called him just Tak. And he was my childhood, younger days, way up to the time of the evacuation, my close buddy. And we became quite close when we started getting interested in gymnastics in junior high school, middle school. And he was able, well, he ended up in Manzanar, and he was able to continue his interest in gymnastics and became quite good at it. I went to what is equivalent to middle school and high school in Ogden, Utah. And those schools didn't have any equipment or any programs in gymnastics, and I was very disappointed because I couldn't continue in the same way.

KL: Did San Pedro have a team or a trainer or anything?

MS: Well, in the grades that we were in, they used to have a tumbling class aside from regular gym. And we both were in the same class. And also outside they used to have a high bar, and we used to play on that before class and all that. So we used to communicate mail-wise when he was in Manzanar and I was in Utah.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.