Densho Digital Archive - Susan Brown Phelps Interview (denshovh-psusan-01-0008)

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RM: Where did you go to high school?

SP: South Pasadena.

RM: And I was curious about, you mentioned that you studied abroad in Germany in college. I was curious, where did you go to college and what did you study?

SP: I went to Stanford and I studied history. I was, actually wanted to be an international relations major, but I wound up being a history major, that's the way the credits worked out.

RM: Why did you decide on history?

SP: Well, I was just always fascinated by history, still am.

RM: Did you have a specific focus?

SP: Well, European history. I was very wrapped up in, of course, German history. This was not that long after the war, so I was very interested in all that whole thing and then I became very, I was at Stanford in Germany, and a group of us made a trip to the Soviet Union in just the height of the Cold War period, and we were among the first even traveling into the Soviet Union. We made this trip during winter break by train into the Soviet Union. So I became very enamored of Soviet history and Russian history. I wanted to go on in Russian area studies and was not accepted into the graduate program I wanted, so I also became, wound up going to graduate school in education. My mother telling me, "You've got to get your teaching credential so you're always prepared to work, make a living if you need to, Susan." So that's what I did.

RM: Sounds like motherly advice. I'm curious what your impressions, first of all, what year was it that you went to the Soviet Union and what your impressions were?

SP: It was the winter of (1960), March of (1960), and it was a monumental experience for all of us who went. There were, like, thirteen of us American college students, sophomores and juniors, and we were shepherded around by the Intourist people, you couldn't wander around loose in the Soviet Union. We went to Moscow, Leningrad and Kiev. And we, you know, it was a real confrontation with Communist way of life, and very eye-opening for all of us. Many of us admired the philosophy, the theoretical philosophy of Communism, but when we came head-on with the way it was being implemented in the Soviet Union it was a real eye-opener to see what living in a totalitarian state was like. Of course, we were also in Germany which was not that far removed from having been a totalitarian state. And so it was the ultimate experiential education, I'll tell you.

RM: What year did you go to Germany? Was that the same trip?

SP: It was the same time, yeah, we were there... we arrived at New Year's beginning of 1960, end of '59. So I was in Germany from January 1960 'til the fall of '61. And the second year I studied, I went alone at the Free Anniversary of West Berlin, and again, the height of the Cold War, when there were all the troubles with people fleeing East Germany into West Germany through West Berlin, which was isolated within East Germany. But it was the, I left in July, and August is when the wall was, the wall went up to try and stop all that. So this was the height of talk about what's gonna happen in Berlin, and will there be a confrontation with the Russian government and East Germans about stopping the refugee flow. It was a very interesting time to be there.

RM: That's fascinating.

SP: It was, it was great.

RM: Did you study German?

SP: I did, and history. Classes were in German, so I took a crash course to improve my German. When I left there I was pretty fluent, but it's gone now pretty much, sadly.

RM: When did you return to the United States? That would be 1961? Where did you go?

SP: Well, I went back to Stanford to finish. I had to, had my last year and then I had to go an extra quarter because I only got two-thirds of a year credit for my junior year abroad, so to speak. So I was there 'til December of '62, and then I went to Massachusetts where I was enrolled in the Harvard Graduate School of Education for the master's degree.

RM: I'm curious to know what your dad and your mom thought about... you said your mom joined you in Germany, which spoke to her sense of adventure. Did you ever know what your dad thought about your obvious willingness to go and study in Berlin?

SP: He, in the end, he supported my going. He was, it was, in a way, surprising to me that he was... there were old school parts of him. I think he felt... he was not enthusiastic about my staying in Germany, but when I gave him this big sales pitch about why I wanted to stay, he kind of caved. You know, he said, "You should become a lawyer, you're so persuasive." [Laughs] But then on the other hand, he also didn't see any reason why I needed to go to graduate school, because I was just going to get married and have children, and why would I need to work? So in the end he did help me with graduate school also. I think he was, when I came back, he was impressed that I was fluent in German, and he enjoyed my stories and I think he was glad that I had done that.