Densho Digital Archive - Susan Brown Phelps Interview (denshovh-psusan-01-0012)

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RM: When was it that you became aware of sort of the historical import of Manzanar, especially since you were studying history in college?

SP: Yeah.

RM: I'm personally curious about when Manzanar... today, obviously, it has great historical import, but in the '50s, just after it happened, and in the early '60s, were you aware of it as something that was really important in American history?

SP: I think I was not, actually, 'til probably in the '60s is when I became more aware about the whole thing. It's curious how those of us who live through these periods had a whole different perspective about them when you were going through it as when you look back on it. So as a teenager, I think it was just, to me, something that my family did, I didn't even think about the import of it, you know. It seems horrifying now to think of that, but it's true. And even today I talk to people about how my father was the assistant director of Manzanar, and they sort of look at me aghast. You know, because people today even have opinions about it ranging from a moderate understanding of... a balanced understanding of what it was all about, and looking at the relocation of Japanese within the context of the war period. And those who were on the other end who just think that they were concentration camps, it was horrible. You know, it was horrible, but they were not concentration camps. And reacting and wondering if they will be looking at my family with a critical eye, "Oh, her father did this horrible thing." So it's interesting, but most people have a pretty understanding view of it.

RM: How often does that come up in conversation for you, the fact that your dad was the assistant project director here?

SP: It comes up with some frequency, actually. People ask me about my background, and, "Where are you from?" I'm more and more... I'm freer and freer about talking about it. There were times when I would be careful who I mentioned it to, it's interesting that way.

RM: I know that... I'm assuming this is the first time you've seen the exhibits here at Manzanar.

SP: Yes, it is.

RM: I'm curious to know, first of all, what you think of them, and second of all, what you would have us, what you would like us to share with the world and the education we're trying to do here at this site.

SP: Well, the first time I saw it was yesterday and I was really favorably impressed with your exhibits. I thought they were wonderful and did a pretty good job of recreating what it might have been like to be here, what it might have been like for the people who experienced it. I mean, when you have ten thousand people, you have ten thousand stories, so it's really hard in a small exhibit to convey the range of experiences. I would say one thing that I have learned from the reading that I've done that I didn't notice too much yesterday was the, how shattering an experience this was for particularly older, the older part of the population, how it just destroyed their lives, and many of them died of broken hearts, I think, as a result of this experience. And now being seventy-two myself, I can see what that would have been like, and how the young people were much more able to adapt and adjust and go on with their lives without horrific bitterness. But that might be interesting to show that a little better. And the other thing I'm curious about that I didn't see much evidence of is what happened to these people afterwards. When they went on with their lives, how hard was that for everybody, and more about the property they lost. I mean, their wealth was totally destroyed and that must have just been so hard for all those families. And that we did so little so late to try to help them with that, I think it's remarkable that Japanese Americans by and large, the ones that I come against which aren't huge numbers because I don't live in the West Coast anymore, but that they seem to have as little bitterness as they do about the entire episode.

RM: Do you remember when the reparations and redress was happening?

SP: Yes, I do.

RM: What were your opinions at that time?

SP: Well, I was glad something was finally being done, but I felt it was, again, too little too late.

RM: I don't know if you've had a chance to walk around the administration area here on the site, even anywhere else in this camp, your father's footsteps would have been... he was so involved. I was just curious what it was like to be here and know that your dad had spent so much time, two years of his life, and hard work, on this very site, probably in this building where we are right now. What does that feel like for you?

SP: Well, it's amazing. Like I was saying to you earlier, it's amazing to think about having been an adult coming through periods where I worked hard on things myself, and looking around at the achievement that Manzanar was in creating a town and a physical town as well as a society, a civil society among the people living here in such a short time. I can't imagine what the work life was like, what the day was like. It must have been amazing, especially since he was commuting to Bishop and worrying about his family back there. It just must have been an extremely intense period of his life. And I just wish I knew more about it. I wish I could... I had a movie that would show me what a day in the life of Bob Brown was like then, or all those people. It's really quite something.

RM: I wish we had movie, too.

SP: Yeah, really. But they did a tremendous job, I mean, they did an amazing job working together to make that happen.