<Begin Segment 10>

KL: Are there other places that you remember from your childhood, places in Manzanar that stood out?

JO: Well, I talked about everybody was growing a garden, so I thought, oh, I would grow a garden, too. And I got some gardening tools and I made rows and I planted corn. And I watered it, and pretty soon the corn stalks grew. I didn't have any kernels, but I had cornstalks. I didn't fertilize, I guess, so I didn't get any corn, ears of corn. I think I got one. But it was an experience, I mean, I tried growing something.

KL: Where'd you get the seeds?

JO: Probably got them from the store, the co-op. But I think my father and my mother went and bought it for me. Because everybody was growing things, and well, why not me? What else do I remember? I had another grandfather there, my father's father was also in Manzanar. I think he lived in, he also lived in Block 12, but where the bachelors lived, wherever that was. But he raised rabbits, and so he had these cages of rabbits, and I don't know how he got these cages. Because I think about it now, how did he get those cages? The rabbits, of course, they multiplied, so he had a lot of rabbits. And apparently he was going to be leaving camp, so he had to get rid of the rabbits. So in late '43, around Christmas time, it was just, oh, maybe November or early December, they decided to kill all the rabbits, and brought all the cages there to Block 12, and I stood and I watched them slaughter all of the rabbits, chop off their heads, stick 'em in hot water, and skin then. They saved the skins to sell, and the rabbits for later on to eat. So I didn't eat any rabbit at Christmas time. I could not eat a rabbit, sorry. [Laughs]

KL: Had you been around them much before that?

JO: Rabbits?

KL: I mean, his rabbits, your grandfather's rabbits.

JO: No, I didn't even know... he must have had them somewhere else, because I don't know where they were growing.

KL: Where did he go when he left Manzanar?

JO: He went to Salt Lake City and he started his own business of making shoyu out of soybeans, and the stuff that's left, the mash that's left after you make soybeans, that's made into something else that's edible for Japanese people to eat. And he was doing that, and he made... I don't know how he did all this, but he also made the Japanese crackers, the sembei, the cookies. And what he did was he made the ones with the ginger flavored frosting on it, the covered, ginger flavored cover on it. He said that was something he... he was a really inventive person, but never had the money to make a success. But he had these ginger crackers, and they were so good, and now everybody has it. He was a, he said he made this himself, and he did something else himself, too, but I don't remember what. But I remember the ginger crackers, because they were so good. And he did that for a while, because it was a, I guess, a large enough population of Japanese there that he also made tofu.

KL: And this is in Salt Lake?

JO: Salt Lake City.

KL: Did he ever come back to California?

JO: Oh, yeah. I guess after his... he probably didn't take good care of his books or something, things catch up with you, and he had to come back but as a pauper, he came back to Los Angeles and he became a nuisance for my other grandparents, because they had to take care of him. [Laughs] Which they did, because my father, we were all in Chicago.

KL: Oh, he came back pretty quickly then?

JO: Yeah. Well, he was maybe in... let's see, we were in Chicago until 1952, so probably late '40s he went. Let's see, because 1950... we came back to L.A. in 1950 for my aunt's wedding, my aunt Irene got married. But we took the train, and I think going back we took the Union Pacific and got off at Salt Lake City. But I don't think my grandfather was there anymore, but some other friends were there.

KL: Did he say anything about the climate in Salt Lake City for Japanese people? It sounds like he had a market, to...

JO: Other friends went from Manzanar, they went to Salt Lake City to... my friend from Block 12, her family moved to Salt Lake City and they had a... they didn't have any problems there. I think mainly, I don't know why, but there were the prejudices they had in California.

KL: You mentioned on the phone when we talked, I think, that you remembered Bairs Creek.

JO: Oh, yes.

KL: Tell us about that.

JO: I thought Bairs Creek was far away from camp, and I thought we had to walk outside the gate and far away to get there. I didn't realize that it crisscrossed a quarter of the actual camp, and that's where we walked to. And it was... but I only went there a couple times, which was kind of sad for me, because I really liked going there and walking on the rocks and in the water. But I didn't go there very often.

KL: I got to see just a trickle of water in there a couple of days ago, it was the first time I had seen any water since I started working -- I mean, I'd never seen any water there.

JO: Well, maybe this was... there was a lot of water running there at that time. Water running down the rocks, and I remember sitting on a rock and putting my feet into the water. But it was for just a brief moment in my life there. I also climbed apple trees.

KL: Oh, yeah?

JO: We lived in Block 12, and then the next area was the apple orchards, so we always went up there and climbed the apple orchard trees.

KL: Did you pick apples?

JO: No, we didn't pick the apples. I don't know why we didn't pick 'em, but I guess I didn't really like eating apples all that much. Probably didn't like eating all that much. But I don't remember picking apples.

KL: But you liked climbing trees?

JO: Yeah, climb the tree and sit there and then jump down. It was something to do.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.