<Begin Segment 1>

AL: This is Alisa Lynch. Today is the sixth of August, 2013. I am at the Fremont Hotel with Grace Fukuhara Niwa. We are doing an interview for the Manzanar National Historic Site oral history project. The videographer is Whitney Peterson, note taker Rose Masters, and also in the room are SCA intern Tokiko Fujisawa and Angel Island State Park ranger Larisa Proulx. So I'd like to first start out, Grace, by asking if we have your permission to record this interview and to use the information for education and historical purposes at Manzanar.

YN: Yes.

AL: Thank you. And I'd like to start also by asking you your full name and when and where you were born.

YN: My name is Yoshino Grace Fukuhara Niwa. I was born in Manzanar October 29, 1942.

AL: And what are your parents' names?

YN: My father's name is Henry Kazuo Fukuhara, and my mother's name is Fujiko Yasutake Fukuhara.

AL: And do you know what part of Japan your parents came from?

YN: My father's parents were from Hiroshima, and my mother's parents were from Yamaguchi.

AL: And were your parents both Nisei?

YN: Yes.

AL: Older Nisei. So do you know what brought, in your father's case, what brought his parents over from Japan?

YN: No, I don't.

AL: But your father was born here in the U.S.?

YN: Yes.

AL: When and where was he born?

YN: He was born in Fruitland, which is basically East Los Angeles. It no longer exists as a city.

AL: And is the oldest in his family?

YN: He's the oldest.

AL: The chonan. Could you explain for someone who doesn't know that term, chonan, what is a chonan and what is the significance of being the chonan?

YN: Well, I guess the oldest son is the heir, so to speak, and when my grandparents came and settled in Santa Monica, they were not able to buy property in their name. But being the oldest son, the property -- and American citizen -- the property was bought in my father's name, and it was given to him as his inheritance. The property was just in his name, though he had six siblings.

AL: What are the names of his siblings?

YN: Frank, I don't know all the Japanese names, and then it's Tomi, it was Tomi Matsunaga, and Jimmy Fukuhara, George Fukuhara, Lily Takayama and Willie Fukuhara.

AL: And I know that Jimmy is still living because he comes to Manzanar on a fairly regular basis. Are any of your father's other siblings still alive?

YN: Those are all alive.

AL: They're all alive, okay, so only your dad...

YN: Has passed away. I think there was an infant that passed away, and a young child, maybe two or three.

AL: And what was your father's family's business?

YN: They were in landscape and growers, plant growers.

AL: So did they have a nursery?

YN: They did, they had a nursery and a plant stand in Los Angeles.

AL: Do you know where in L.A.?

YN: No, I don't.

AL: But the property that your dad lived on Santa Monica until his last years, that was the original family property?

YN: They moved several places. Before then, they lived in the Palisades, but before the war they were able to purchase that property and had plant stock. And by selling the plant stock they were able to pay the mortgage before going to Manzanar. So the land was there, I believe someone was to take care of it.

AL: Did your grandparents, were they married when they came over from Japan or did they meet and marry here?

YN: Oh, goodness. The way I recall it is that my grandfather came here and then he went back to Japan and married my grandmother and brought her here.

AL: Did they have any children in Japan before your father, or he's the oldest first?

YN: He's the oldest first.

AL: I ask that because we've talked to some families where their parents had some children in Japan and then they came over and had more children here, but he's their first son.

YN: As far as I know. [Laughs]

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

AL: What about your mother's family, where were they from?

YN: My mother's family, her parents... I don't know if both her parents came from Yamaguchi-ken and they settled in Hawaii. I don't know exactly what they did, I think her father was in some kind of building, and he built some small cottages where tourists could come and stay. And my mother would help in maintaining those cottages, and at one time, a family came and liked my mother, and agreed to pay for her passage to the mainland in exchange for a year's service. And while she was here it was that she met my father.

AL: And what was your mother's name at birth?

YN: My mother's name was Fujiko Doris Yasutake.

AL: Yasutake?

YN: Uh-huh.

AL: And how many children are in her family, siblings?

YN: There are six total. Four, she has four brothers and two sisters. Does that make six?

AL: So there are seven including her?

YN: Let's see, one, two, three, four girls and two boys, I'm sorry.

AL: And do you remember all their names? It's a big family.

YN: It's a big family. Henry and Isamu, I don't know if he had an English name. And when they were young, they went to Japan. One stayed with their mother's family and one stayed with their father's family. And then her older sister Hanako was born, and then my mom was... oh, no, and then Joanne, and then my mother's the third daughter, and then Beatrice is the fourth daughter.

AL: Do you recall your mom's parents' names?

YN: Oh, goodness. I think my... I don't want to make a mistake. Manpei was my father, M-A-N-P-E-I, and my mother's... I'm sure I know it someplace.

AL: And we can get that later, too, get information. So did your mother ever share any stories of growing up in Hawaii?

YN: I guess her mother was a seamstress also, and she would buy a bolt of cloth, and all the girls would have the same dress. And so they said, "Oh, well, that's a Yasutake girl," because it was recognizable. I know she worked at the Dole pineapple factory when she was older. Not really.

AL: So your grandfather you said, did he own his guest cottages?

YN: I think so, after he built them. I mean, very slowly, one by one.

AL: Did she have any other brothers or sisters who came over to the mainland, or did she just come by herself?

YN: Well, she came by herself with this American family. And eventually, quite a bit later, her oldest brother came. And then the two younger sisters. Her younger sister, when she was in her teens, wanted to study in Japan, and then the war broke out and she got, she couldn't come back. So my mother always thinks of her as being the, educated in all the Japanese arts, the dancing and kimono making and the embroidery.

AL: Which sister was that?

YN: This is Beatrice.

AL: And so she was there for the whole war?

YN: Yes.

AL: Do you know if they were in contact during the war?

YN: I don't know.

AL: Do you know the name of the family that hired your mother from Hawaii, or where they lived?

YN: I do. Yes, but I don't remember it now.

AL: That's okay. Did she ever talk at all about how she felt about coming to the mainland by herself? I mean, that's a big step.

YN: Yes. Well, she didn't really talk about it except that it was a long, a long time on a steamship. But she didn't say too much about missing her family, which I'm sure she did. I remember her saying when she got married -- she was to stay a year and she liked it in California, so she stayed a second year. But after the two years she did go back home, but since she had met my father, he wanted her to come back to California. And so she did, and they got married. But I think the sad part was that none of her family could come for the wedding.

AL: How would you describe her sense of adventure?

YN: Oh, well, she was very good about that. You know, willing to try, and then, of course, she and my father traveled quite a bit when they were able. And since my father had a business, I think that he worked, he worked a lot on weekends, long days. And so a vacation was to kind of get away, the only way he would be away from work. And he was able to paint.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

AL: Do you know how they met?

YN: Well, there's two stories, but they both involve my father's sister Tomi. It was either in a dressmaking class or a flower arranging class that she was taking with Tomi. And my father would come to pick her up after class, and he would give my mother a ride to where she lived.

AL: And the rest is history, huh?

YN: That's right. [Laughs]

AL: Do you know what their religious backgrounds were as they were growing up?

YN: Well, my father is from a Buddhist family, but when the children were young, my father could go to any church that he chose, but basically I think he was Buddhist. And then my mother was also raised in the Buddhist church and eventually we made it to New York after the war, after internment, and he... the neighbor across the street took my sister and I to Sunday school. And eventually both my parents became Christians.

AL: Do you know which sect of Buddhism they grew up... was it the same, I don't know if sect is the right word, but the same... I know there's Nishi and there's Higashi and there's...

YN: Oh, no, I don't.

AL: Did they describe at all their wedding? Was it a large affair, small, do you know anything about that?

YN: It was quite large, I think. They got married in the Buddhist church downtown that is now the Japanese American National Museum on First Street.

AL: So it was Nishi Hongwanji?

YN: Yes. And then I believe the reception was at the Far East Cafe, where, typical wedding reception.

AL: Did they take any pictures of it?

YN: I'm sure there were. I know they had formal pictures taken by Toyo Miyatake at his studio.

AL: Many generations.

YN: And he took ours, too, my husband and I, when we got married, Toyo Miyatake took it.

AL: Your family was even then, though, from West Los Angeles?

YN: Santa Monica.

AL: Santa Monica, okay. So your parents, did they live with your father's parents, or did they build their own house? Do you know what their living arrangement was in the early years of their marriage?

YN: I think they all lived together.

AL: What year did they marry?

YN: They married in 1938.

AL: Do you know if your father had ever visited Japan as a young man?

YN: I don't think so.

AL: Or your mom?

YN: I don't think so. I think it was either the twenty-fifth or the thirty-fifth anniversary where they went to Japan together.

AL: Just stepping back a little bit, of course, I'm sure some people who hear this interview will know that your father's a very famous artist. Do you know when he began developing as an artist? Was it something he was doing from childhood or something he started as an adult?

YN: He started quite young. I don't know when, at least by high school, I would say. And he had a one-man show at what became the Los Angeles Museum of Art. And that has been documented in the Los Angeles Times. And I think that he was too busy, really, working, since he was the oldest son, providing for the family, and his younger brothers and sisters, and helping his father, that he didn't have time for his art. And so it was at Manzanar when he had some time and he was on the surveying team that he was able to go out to different places that he was able to sketch. And so he kind of took it up again. And my uncle Jimmy says that that art was the way that he got out of the camps, out of Manzanar.

AL: Did he have formal training in art that you're aware of, or a mentor?

YN: He went to Otis. He went to Otis for a while. But then he realized that he could not continue to pay the tuition, so he had to drop out.

AL: And your mother, did she, how far did she go in school?

YN: She finished high school in Hawaii.

AL: Do you know what school she went to?

YN: Uh-huh, McKinley High.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

AL: So you have a sister who's born before the war, is that right?

YN: Yes, Joyce, Shizuko Joyce.

AL: What year was she born?

YN: 1940.

AL: And you were born in '42?

YN: '42, right. So they were interned in Manzanar from April 25, 1942, and I was born in October.

AL: What do you know about any recollections they shared of their lives before the war aside from their work lives? Any sort of traveling or connections or cultural things they might have been involved in?

YN: No, I don't.

AL: Just busy working? Did your mother work in the business also?

YN: I don't think so.

AL: Do you recall any stories that they shared of the war, the beginning of the war, the months before they went to camp? Any stories you've heard in your family about their move to Manzanar?

YN: No, only that they sold whatever they could, and that they could pay for the property. So the property was still there in Santa Monica for them when they returned, but they didn't go back until much later.

AL: Do you know who cared for the property during the war?

YN: No, I don't.

AL: So in their, when they got to Manzanar, do you know who they lived with? I mean, with only one child, they would have probably been in with other people. Do you know if they lived with family or with strangers?

YN: Well, with my father and mother and my older sister, there was my grandmother and grandfather, and, let's see. Frank was married and Jimmy and Tomi and Lily. They were all there, all of his brothers and sisters were there, and my mother's sister was also there.

AL: So did your mother's sister live near your mother when she came over or was she totally on her own?

YN: I don't know. I don't think she ever lived with them, but I don't know why she got together with the family, I don't know whether she had the same family number or not.

AL: So you said that your father worked on the survey crew?

YN: Uh-huh.

AL: Do you know how he got that job? Did he volunteer for it or did he get... do you know anything about that? No stories?

YN: I don't know anything about that, no.

AL: What did they say about camp in later years?

YN: You know, they really didn't talk a lot about it when we were growing up. I just met my college roommate, and she said, "I didn't know you were going to Manzanar." I said, "Well, we didn't talk about it then." So it's just in the last twenty, thirty years that we talk about the internment to let people know.

AL: When did you learn that you were born in Manzanar?

YN: I think from the beginning.

AL: What did you think Manzanar was as a child?

YN: As a child, I don't know. I guess I knew it was an internment camp, but, or a place where all these Japanese people lived. But we really didn't talk about it specifically or why we were there. We were together as a family.

AL: So you would have been born in the new hospital that opened at Manzanar, the permanent hospital, I should say, opened in August of 1942. Did your mother ever share any recollections about her experience in the hospital or your birth or any stories unique to being born in Manzanar?

YN: Except I just found out today, or last night, at the mixer that there was a notice in the Manzanar Free Press that my mother gave birth to a baby girl, but they had the wrong name. Not my name, but they had my mother's name wrong, and so they had to write a correction with her name correct.

AL: Do you know which doctor delivered you, did you ever hear?

YN: Dr. Goto.

AL: Dr. Goto. Did you know him in later years?

YN: No, I didn't.

AL: He went back in practice to L.A. Actually, it's kind of an aside, but his great-nephew works for us.

YN: Oh, my goodness.

AL: So your father, I know we were talking last night about the sketchbook that your father did in Manzanar and then the very few copies available. What do you know about that, how that sketchbook came to be and how it came to be distributed, 'cause there's multiple copies, originals that exist. Do you know anything about the background of that sketchbook?

YN: I don't know. I know that my sister had a copy, whether it was an original or not, but from whatever copy she had, she made copies for my brother and myself, and I don't know who else. So I have a copy.

AL: But you said last night that your father said that was not to be distributed, is that the same one?

YN: It was not for publication.

AL: You said you have a brother?

YN: I have a brother, yes.

AL: I didn't realize, I thought they just had three girls. So how many children are in your family and what are their names?

YN: Well, there were four children. My older sister, Shizuko Joyce, is the one that went to camp, to Manzanar. And then I was born in Manzanar, and then my brother is [inaudible] Susumu Fukuhara, and he was born in New York. And Helen Yasuko Fukuhara was born in New York also.

AL: When was your brother born?

YN: 1946, January 26, 1946. And Helen was born August 19, 1948.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

AL: Do you know how your father came to find out about an opportunity to go to New York, I mean, how that happened?

YN: Well, oh, goodness. I know he was told to go to Chicago because of his art, and I think he looked into Chicago Art Institute and whether it was someone there who recommended New York or not, I don't know. But we settled in a town called Farmingdale on Long Island, and there was a huge nursery there, it was called the City of Glass. And he worked there, he and his brothers, and he was also to recruit others to work there. So at that point, whether he felt as though he could not support a family with his art, and so he went back to something with a steady income.

AL: Did his whole family leave Manzanar together or did they, you know, like his parents, did they leave to go to New York also or did they remain behind in Manzanar?

YN: That I don't know. I know my father went to Idaho from the camps, he went to Idaho to the sugar beet farming, I guess it's a work furlough or some term. And from there, I don't know if he went directly to Chicago and my mother came later. I know we came on the train with my mom, but I don't know if my father was there, too.

AL: So he went, he did go to Chicago or he went to...

YN: He did go to Chicago, but I don't know how long he stayed there, and then went on to New York from Farmingdale.

AL: Well, and the earliest picture I have seen of you, which we were talking about last night, is the one that Stone Ishimaru took of you in the tire swing in Farmingdale. As a, what, maybe three years old, two years old?

YN: Yeah, two or three.

AL: There are a couple of hakujin kids in that picture. Do you know who they are?

YN: The Olson family, yes.

AL: And how was your family connected to them?

YN: They were neighbors and they befriended us. And I think my sister still has an address and can contact them.

AL: What is your earliest memory?

YN: I don't know, I cannot remember. I do remember a little bit of Farmingdale, but very little. But more after we moved to Deer Park, also on Long Island.

AL: So how did you end up there and what did your dad do?

YN: I think my father always wanted to have his own business, and he and his brothers and parents, we all moved to Deer Park. There was a greenhouse there, but mostly they grew carnations inside the greenhouse and dahlias outside.

AL: So by that point then, the whole family did go to Deer Park? You said his parents and his brothers and everybody?

YN: Yes, his brothers and sisters. He had, one, two, three brothers that were in the service, so it was the two younger brothers and two sisters.

AL: Do you know if any of his brothers entered the service from Manzanar, or did they come, did they go after the war, or after leaving Manzanar?

YN: I don't know.

AL: And a lot of those things we can also look up, from the paperwork that we have at Manzanar. So did they buy the property at Deer Park, the nursery there?

YN: Yes. And there was a house.

AL: And how long did they live there?

YN: Well, forever. [Laughs] We lived there, and then around the mid-60s, my father built a house on part of the property, a smaller house, and they moved there.

AL: I know a number of families went east, and then when the war ended in the mid, late-'40s, they started coming back to the West Coast. Do you know why your family stayed back there so much longer?

YN: Well, I supposed my father had established a business. Two of his brothers stayed there, the two youngest brothers. I don't know when his parents moved back to California, I think in the '50s. One brother, Frank, moved his family back to California first and tried to get the business going but there was just too much work to do by himself. And so his father went, father and mother went. The cold was very difficult for my grandmother because she had arthritis, and so they moved and were helping Frank to establish, reestablish the business in Santa Monica, and eventually Jimmy went and they had their own business there.

AL: So was somebody leasing the property in Santa Monica, like, after the war? Before Frank and Jimmy went back, do you know who had the property?

YN: I don't know.

AL: Just stepping aside for a moment to your mom's family, do you, were they all still in Hawaii? Besides her sister who was in Japan, were they all still in Hawaii during the war?

YN: Yes.

AL: Did you ever hear any stories of their experiences?

YN: No.

AL: Did your mother remain close to them? I mean, did she correspond with them, or was it, you know, she was just... because New York is a lot further away from Hawaii. Do you know if she was able to go back and visit family or keep in touch?

YN: I know that her mother came once to the home in Deer Park, and I know that my mother took Helen, my younger sister Helen with her to Hawaii when she was an infant. And I can't tell you when her two youngest sisters came to California.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

AL: Other than your extended family, were there many other Japanese Americans in Deer Park?

YN: No.

AL: Or Farmingdale before that?

YN: In Farming... I don't remember any others, but there must have been some because my father was to recruit these Japanese workers for this nursery. But I don't remember having any association. I remember when we were in Deer Park we used to have, Mr. Yoshida was the egg man and he would come and deliver eggs. And in the very beginning I don't remember it, and definitely not in the town of Deer Park, it's just a small town. Eventually we had two war brides settle in the town.

AL: Being one of the few families there, do you feel like you were treated differently by your neighbors? You said the Olsons had befriended you. I mean, obviously in the '40s on the West Coast there was so much racism and anti-Japanese sentiment, how would you compare, I know you didn't live here before the war, but just from what you know of growing up in Deer Park, how would that have compared to the racial climate here? Were you conscious of being of different ancestry, or was it just no big deal?

YN: I didn't... but I do remember my mother saying that we... I'm assuming it was New York City where we got off the train, that the Caucasian people were just coming up to us and hugging us, and never seeing any Japanese children. And so that impressed her, and that story impressed me. But I do not remember any prejudice in New York. We went to school, it was a small school, small town, small school. And, no, I didn't feel it.

AL: Do you recall your parents ever discussing whether or when to return to the West Coast? Like when you were a small child, was there ever a discussion of, "Oh, we're gonna get back to Santa Monica," or did you just assume they were just going to stay in New York?

YN: Oh, we were just going to stay in New York forever. [Laughs] Forever, although I think my mother as she got older wanted to come to California because the winters are quite severe. And so she had talked about it, but I don't think my father ever really wanted to come back. And at that point he had established himself and retired from the nursery and established himself as an artist. He was teaching, giving workshops, and so if he moved to California he'd have to reestablish that, which he did. He did. So he was very fortunate. But I think if my mother didn't want to come back, I think he would have been very happy to stay in New York.

AL: I wonder if the racial climate and difference, when you were saying being so accepted there, had anything to do with... I mean, who knows, but if it had anything to do with their decisions to remain there. So when you were talking about your father becoming known as an artist, when were you conscious of him as an, realizing that, wow, my dad is an artist, as opposed to just a father who likes to sketch?

YN: Oh, well, I had moved to California in 1968, and that's about when he was retiring and started... he always liked to go to galleries, and he'd go into New York. And he started attending different workshops, selected artists that he felt he wanted to learn under. But it was mostly after I had moved to California.

AL: And what brought you to California?

YN: Well, we had vacationed here, and we had family in Santa Monica. And so I thought... I had been teaching, and finished my master's degree, and I thought that was a good time for a change, so I came out to be with family, extended family in Santa Monica.

AL: Did your grandparents remain back in New York? Oh, you said they came back out with Frank and Jimmie in the '50s, right?

YN: Eventually, yeah.

AL: In the '50s.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

AL: How did you meet your husband?

YN: I went to the West Los Angeles United Methodist church, because that's where my cousins were going, and my husband was going there also. His family was quite prominent in the church, and he sang in the choir, and he wanted me to sing in the choir. And there was a group that would meet after, that would go out for lunch afterwards, so that's how I met my husband.

AL: So you did not come to California with him, you came... I mean, you were in California, you met him here?

YN: Because he's a Californian.

AL: Okay. What year did you get married?

YN: In 1969.

AL: Yeah, I know that there's a number of people from West Los Angeles Methodist Church who were in Manzanar and have remained involved in Manzanar. I don't know if you've come on the field trips where they bring a bus up to come back to Manzanar, usually in the fall. It's a very vibrant community.

YN: Uh-huh, with Rose Honda and Haru Nakata and the Nishi family. We've never done that one.

AL: So you went to... you said you'd gotten your master's degree. Could you just tell us a little bit about your own school and which schools you went to, where you went to high school?

YN: I went to school through eighth grade in Deer Park, but we didn't have a high school, so I went to Babylon High School.

AL: What was it called?

YN: Babylon, B-A-B-Y-L-O-N.

AL: Oh, okay, like the tower.

YN: Like the town of Babylon.

AL: Were they all speaking different languages? [Laughs]

YN: No, that's Babel. [Laughs]

AL: Oh, yeah.

YN: Yeah, so I graduated from there. And then I went on to what was at that time called State University of New York at Oyster Bay, it was a temporary campus that eventually moved to Stonybrook, and now it is called Stonybrook University, it's part of the state university system.

AL: And what did you study?

YN: I studied math, I was a math major.

AL: And you said you got your master's and you were also a teacher?

YN: Yes, I was able to get a National Science Foundation grant to continue. And so while I was teaching I'd go at night to Adelphi University and got my master's in math education.

AL: Did either of your sisters or your brother come back to California before you could come back, or you just came back to your cousins and aunts and uncles?

YN: I was the first to come back. And my brother, let's see, he went to college for a few years and decided that he was going to join the army. So he did that, and when he was finished, he was discharged, he came to... I think it was San Jose, San Jose State and finished with school.

AL: And your parents, when they, when you were coming back to California, did they share any insight or advice, or were they just ship you out to family? Was there a feeling when you were the first one coming back? That's a long way away.

YN: Well, it was. But I had kind of decided that's what I wanted to do. And I think they were disappointed because my younger sister was still in high school, I was teaching in a high school. And so if I had stayed maybe another year she had before she graduated, that would have been probably better. But I don't know why, I just thought it was the time.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

AL: Was Helen able... so we were talking before the interview about Helen losing her sight from being premature. Was she able to go to regular schools at that time? I mean, did they have the equivalent of what we call special ed. today, for her?

YN: She started at Deer Park, that's my best recollection, and then she went to private schools during the week and came home on the weekend. And she eventually went on to Castra University and got her bachelor's degree.

AL: And she is also an artist?

YN: She's also an artist, yes.

AL: Did anybody else in your immediate family have the artistic streak besides your dad and your younger sister?

YN: No. [Laughs]

AL: Do you think your father encouraged her as an artist, or did she just come to that on her own?

YN: I don't know, because I wasn't home too much then. But I think that's... I think he encouraged it, but he was always a little skeptical about how much was really what she was doing, because selection of colors and things, it was all tactile.

AL: So did your father associate with other artists? I mean, you said he went to shows and workshops, and do you know about what year he started becoming... I don't know, I'm sure it was a long transition, but you know, where he started becoming, like you said, known as an artist and having his shows? Is that in the '50s, '60s?

YN: Oh, no, I'd say early '70s at the earliest. It was after I had moved out here.

AL: And he became known for... how would you describe his style? It's a very unique style.

YN: [Laughs] It's very unique, abstract. It's, I think, based on shapes and contrasting shades.

AL: And that was always his style? Because when I've seen the sketchbooks from Manzanar, I guess they're pen and ink or whatever, charcoal, I've always seen photocopies, so it's hard to tell. But it's a very different style than what now is known is known as Fukuhara's style.

YN: Yes. The early sketches were very simple, and I think you'd mentioned earlier about the sketches that he did of ten camps are very linear, I think. And I think as he was losing his eyesight, I think the colors became more vivid and bolder. But he did make a pamphlet of different styles that he did, and it was really... I was surprised because I've basically seen the evolution of his work. But to see some of the other things that he did, some portraits, he did some acrylics, he did some prints, but mainly watercolors.

AL: Did he have like a studio in New York? Or he just took over the kitchen table and painted away? Did he have a dedicated work space?

YN: Well, I mentioned building a house, a separate house from where I grew up. And he had a little room there that was his room, and it was stacked with everything. And when he came to Santa Monica to the family house, he had a studio built on the back of the garage, and he painted. And he painted every day, and he believed that everybody should, an artist should paint every day. And he would tell his students that he knew if they had not been working on their work during the week.

AL: How did he get into teaching art? You said he was doing that back in New York?

YN: He was the resident artist at State University of New York at Stonybrook, my alma mater. And I don't know how he got asked to do that, but he must have been teaching someplace before that.

AL: Do you think he was surprised by his success early on?

YN: I think so. And I suspect he didn't realize his talent was also in teaching, so had he known, maybe his path would have been different. But yes, he was fortunate to get involved at the Emeritus College in Santa Monica, and he took classes there and then he taught there.

AL: Did your mother have any involvement in his art life in the sense of, was she, did she do any art herself, or did she just keep the kids away so he could do it?

YN: Oh, goodness. Well, she was, she was not an artist per se, but was very supportive. She understood his love of art, and if he wanted to go to the gallery or go take workshops or whatever, she understood that that was important, and she supported him in that way.

AL: So when he was coming out west, how did he make his connections to the West Coast art community? Was that, that people knew about him back there, or did he have to sort of rebuild his reputation from the ground up back in Santa Monica, or a little of both?

YN: A little of both, but I think basically he did not have a following from New York, so he had to reestablish himself here. And as I said, Emeritus College of Santa Monica was a big influence and important to him. He made many friendships, and I think that's part of what happens in his workshops that he was taking to Manzanar, was the camaraderie and why people continued to come also.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

AL: Do you know how the whole workshop started and when it started in terms of becoming a Manzanar, Henry Fukuhara's Manzanar watercolor workshop? Do you know when he started doing that?

YN: I don't know the year he started, it's about sixteen years ago. And I guess he had this idea, and so he came to Manzanar on the pilgrimage bus, and someone met him and took him around. And not only Manzanar but other places in the area, and I think he already had the idea then that that was what he wanted to do. Because he remembered it as a beautiful place, and he wanted to experience it, but also to learn about what Manzanar was.

AL: You said he remembered it as a beautiful place. How, could you elaborate on that?

YN: Well, the mountains. Despite the wind and severe conditions at times, it still, surrounded by the mountains, it's beautiful.

AL: So when you moved out here in 1968, usually people would count the first pilgrimage as being the first public pilgrimage as 1969, even though Reverend Wakahiro and Reverend Maeda were going for, since the '40s, Reverend Nakatomi. What about your own consciousness of Manzanar in terms of, as a place? Did you ever go on a pilgrimage, did you hear about the pilgrimages? I mean, how did you start getting Manzanar in your consciousness, or did you?

YN: I don't remember coming with my family. I know that my husband brought me. It was either... it was on our honeymoon, either, I think it was coming back. And we stopped at Manzanar, my husband used to fish and hike, backpack in the mountains. And so he knew it was significant for him because he went to school there, and he knew it was significant to me. And so we stopped there. That's really the first time I think.

AL: So it would be after your honeymoon?

YN: Yes.

[Interruption]

AL: This is Alisa Lynch, the second tape of an interview with Grace Fukuhara Niwa on the 6th of August, 2013. And we were talking about your first visit to Manzanar coming back from your honeymoon. So what was it like when you... what did you see there in 1969?

YN: The guardhouse was there, and the cemetery monument was there and not much more. A little bit of gardens, what was left, but really nothing.

AL: Do you recall any of your emotional reaction to going back there?

YN: No, I don't.

AL: You said your husband lived in Block 29. Could you just give us a little background on your husband and his family, his name when he's born, his parents' names, any just basic background information about his camp experience?

YN: My husband is Ujinobu Niwa. He was the older of two sons of Ujio Niwa and Haruko Niwa, and his younger brother is Ujiaki Niwa. My husband spent his high school years at the Manzanar high school. He graduated in the year, in the class of '44.

AL: Class of '44 is always interesting to me for Manzanar High, because it seems like, at least in previous years, the sort of movers and shakers of Manzanar High, and the people we always associate with, they're almost all class of '44. So when I interview class of '44 people, I always say, "What is it that makes '44 so special?" Because they're so much more involved in so many different things. Maybe not so much now because of health and time, but '44 seemed to be a very active, vibrant class.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

AL: So did you go to Manzanar again anytime after 1969, do you recall going back?

YN: Yes, we've been back a few times. My husband liked to fish, and we've been to Crowley Lake a few times. And I know that we had gone to a pilgrimage, one of the earlier pilgrimages, and we met my father, Al Sutton brought my father there one year, and we met him there. We have since been there for pilgrimages after he built the interpretive center, but never for the workshop.

AL: What was it like going on your first pilgrimage? Do you know about what year that was?

YN: I don't remember.

AL: But did you see it differently as a result from being on the pilgrimage than just going there on your own?

YN: Oh, yes.

AL: In what way?

YN: The interest and the... there was just so many people who had come. To me it was quite a long way to come.

AL: Did you know Sue Embrey? Had you ever met her?

YN: I had met her, but I really didn't know her.

AL: So when... you were just mentioning your father, you mentioned Al Sutton. Could you tell us a little bit about who Al Sutton is and how he and your father met?

YN: I really don't know how they met. I think Al was an artist at that time. He was... I don't know what his title was at UCLA. And they befriended each other, and Al helped my father tremendously as my father's heath became frail. And Al has been the instrumental force in continuing the Henry Fukuhara workshops at Manzanar, and we're truly indebted to him.

AL: So you said you've never been on one of the workshops.

YN: No, I'm not an artist. But now I regret not having done it.

AL: Do you know if your sister Helen ever went to any of them?

YN: Yes, she did. She did. She wanted to go, and my uncle Jimmy said that he would take her, and so, and Auntie Tomi went with them one year.

AL: Did you see the work she produced at Manzanar?

YN: No, she didn't do any.

AL: Oh, she just attended.

YN: She just attended, observed.

AL: You know what was interesting, this year I was working on... I don't normally work on Sunday, but I was working this Sunday at the workshop. And in introducing the movie in our theater, of course, your father is one of the voices on the soundtrack. And because we had so many of the artists there, we always introduce the film and say, you know, "These are real people, these are their stories, there's not a script, there's not actors, these are really people who were here." And so I pointed out, "You're going to hear the voice of Henry Fukuhara." And it was interesting to me that it was almost like, for the artists, this collective, almost like gasp. People... and I had commented to another ranger at the time that just how connected people felt to him, even though many of them had never met him. It seemed like the legacy that he has through that workshop is so much bigger than just someone who used to teach watercolor there, and the connection that people make to him. And I know to you, he's your dad. But what do you think when you go to Manzanar and you hear his voice, or you see the watercolor workshops? How is that for you? What is that like?

YN: I've heard many people who attended the workshop say they really feel that he's there. And people talk about him, they're always talking about him. And I really appreciate Manzanar being supportive of the workshop and having the show each spring during the pilgrimage and through the workshops and wonderful space you have their now to show the paintings. It's just... I don't know.

AL: Did your mother ever go to the workshops?

YN: I don't know if she ever did.

AL: I remember her saying to Richard Potashin and I several years ago that he was too old, that he wouldn't be doing any more, and then every year he would be there. [Laughs] Tell us about your mom in her older years. I mean, I know your dad is so well-known for his work and for his workshops, but tell us about your mom, what her life was like after she came back to California.

YN: Well, they only brought one car, and so Dad had first dibs on the car. So I think she really slowed down after she moved here. I say "here," in Santa Monica, in California. But she had learned to play bridge, and that was a connection. And, of course, her church was very important. They joined the Santa Monica Presbyterian Church, and she was active there. Both of them were active. But not really... she was always there at the receptions, she was always there supporting Dad.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

AL: Do you know, did your parents ever talk about, as Manzanar was getting more well-known, then, of course, there was the Commission hearings and redress, and when people started talking about the camps as a civil liberties, civil rights issue. Did your parents ever have any political involvement with anything about preserving the camps, talking about the camps?

YN: I don't recall that.

AL: Did they ever talk about how they felt about redress?

YN: Never, no.

AL: They didn't use their redress money to buy a second car for your mom or anything? [Laughs] Do you know how they used their redress money?

YN: My dad used his to buy... he traded in his car and he bought a new car. My mother invested it and said that my sister and I would get redress, and my brother and younger sister would not. They were not in camp, they were not entitled to it, but she felt that they should get some money, too, so she invested that and they inherited that when she died.

AL: And then you and your older sister got your own, right?

YN: Yes, eventually we each had our... I don't know what my sister did with hers.

AL: Can I ask what you did with yours?

YN: I remodeled my kitchen. [Laughs]

AL: What did it feel like to get the letter, the redress letter? You got a letter of apology?

YN: I did get a letter of apology, signed by George Bush.

AL: What was that like for you?

YN: I didn't feel, have the same kind of feeling, being a baby and not knowing what it was like there, what kind of hardships, just knowing what my family had to give up, being interned. But it didn't have the same, it didn't have the same meaning to me.

AL: What about for your husband, since he was a little bit older?

YN: Oh, goodness. I don't know. He really wasn't in that. I think that we felt not so much in favor of redress as for maybe an educational fund or something less personal but more... to spread the story.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

AL: When did you first hear about Manzanar becoming preserved or that there might be a historic site?

YN: I don't know, probably in the Rafu Shimpo.

AL: Have you been able to see the evolution of Manzanar? I mean, you said you first went there in 1969, you were there on a pilgrimage, and then you've been there in recent pilgrimages. I'm just curious about your feeling of going there. I know I saw you last year at the pilgrimage, you were there with your younger sister Helen and your husband. That was the first time I realized that you were married to Haruko Niwa's son, so it's a very small town of ten thousand. What is it like when you go there? Your name is on the wall as a baby born in Manzanar. Your father is in the film, your father's artwork that day was on the walls, and when you think of Manzanar being a place that had over eleven thousand people, and there's... your there. What is that like for you?

YN: It's awesome. It really is. And you've done a wonderful job in what has happened, evolved there on the site from where there was just the two, the cemetery monument and the guardhouse to the tower, to the interpretive center, to the barrack, to... really a lot. And I know you have many projects more.

AL: What would you like to see at Manzanar in twenty years? I mean, how would you like... if you could be the person who's directing how that site continues to evolve, what would your vision be for Manzanar?

YN: Well, not knowing what it was like before, I know when I go to the Japanese American National Museum and I see the model that the class of '44 did, I think... I was so struck by how big it was, how many barracks it was. The school, the hospital, the orphanage, the gardens, as much as can be preserved and rebuilt.

AL: What else do you think needs to be rebuilt there? I mean, right now we have a mess hall which is not a rebuild, it's a restore of a World War II era mess hall, and then we've rebuilt the two barracks buildings. Given obviously limited funding, we're not going to be able to rebuild the whole camp, but what would you prioritize in terms of... when you come there as a visitor but also somebody who has a direct personal connection to the history, what do you think is most important to see in the future? Like we've talked about, should we build more towers, should we build the latrines, should we built the laundry room and an ironing room, or should be restoring the gardens, or should we be... there are so many things at Manzanar that one could do. What do you feel makes the biggest difference to people?

YN: Well, my husband is always impressed by the people who came to teach. And if there had not been a high school, had there not been teachers to come from outside, that he would not have been able to go on to college, and he feels that they are not recognized enough, and he knows that some of them had to meet with prejudice after they left the camps, they were not able to be employed as teachers. So possibly school.

AL: Where did he go to school from Manzanar? So he graduated in '44 and he relocated to go to a school, is that right?

YN: His parents went to Milwaukee, his mother was asked to open a hostel there, which she did, and he worked in Milwaukee and saved money. He received several scholarship offers, he was told not to try to go to any of the big universities because there was still a lot of prejudice. And one of the schools that was, one of the first schools that was welcoming these internees was Park College in Missouri, and so that's where he went. It was a Presbyterian college at that time.

AL: And what was... what did he study there?

YN: He was pre-ministerial. His father was not a minister, but there were several ministers in the family. And so my husband was to be a minister, but he loved chemistry, and he was offered this teaching assistant in chemistry. But I guess the dean of religion told him he had a church picked out for him. So I think he went home and told his father he really did not want to be a minister, he wanted to pursue chemistry. And he tells the story of how his father realized that was really what he wanted to be, and he went out and bought him a suit and a watch. He said, "You're gonna need this." But my husband did think that he should give God a chance, and so he went to [inaudible] and walked in front of the dean's office and prayed for a sign, and he said he didn't get the sign, so he said he went to chemistry.

AL: That's a great story. You know, before we realized that that was your husband, I had only known his name through his mother. And some of the quotes from his mother, we use several of her quotes in the exhibit, and obviously I've never met her, but she seemed to be a very eloquent, thoughtful, well-spoken person. What was she like?

YN: She was well-educated, and she, her English was very good. She taught Japanese school, which is why my husband can still speak Japanese. He said, "I can't shame my mother," and so he had to learn Japanese, good Japanese. And she was, because of her English, I think that was why she was asked to open this hostel, the U.S. government asked her to do that. She had a big heart, she was a good cook.

AL: And she was Issei.

YN: And she was Issei, yes.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

AN: So your parents are both Nisei, and your husband is Nisei, but in very different experiences. Because your parents are some of the older Nisei at least I've known. I know they're not the oldest Nisei, but I think a lot of us think of Nisei as being like your husband's age. But your parents were... they were born in what years?

YN: 1913 and 1916.

AL: Just going back to your folks a little bit, I know, when I first knew them, they were living in Santa Monica. And I know then years later they moved to assisted living. And could you just tell us more about their lives in later years. I know your father continued to paint even after he lost his vision. At least his literal vision, I don't think he ever lost his vision, but his sight, I should say. But could you tell us a little more about the rest of their lives from your perspective, the last years of their lives?

YN: I think my father wanted to die in that house in Santa Monica. He was going to live there 'til the end. And my mother wanted to go to Keiro nursing home or the retirement home first. And finally I think she fell, and when she fell, she was in a convalescent home, and they did not recommend her going back to the home. And so at that point she was discharged to a assisted living facility. And so my father went with her. It was in Yorba Linda, which is close to where I live, and it was quite a distance for my mother's friends in Santa Monica to come, because most of them were older. However, my father's artist friends were quite a big younger, and so they continued to come to see him and to help him paint. And that really kept him alive, because without his art, I think he would not have had a reason to continue.

AL: And he continued his art until the end, did he not?

YN: To the very end, yes. I think the end of 2009, he just felt that that was the time, and he stopped eating and died in January 2010.

AL: And your mom died shortly thereafter, didn't she?

YN: Thirty days later. They were married for seventy-one years.

AL: And did she, had she been ill, or do you think she just decided she was gonna...

YN: She had pneumonia. She got pneumonia, and was not really going to recover. And so we were advised of that, and she had already had DNR for health care, and so we tried to honor that.

AL: What is their legacy to you and your sisters and your brother?

YN: Well, they were very generous people, and sharing, and... you know, my mom's home was always open to everybody. This is hard. And to me, they were my parents. They weren't the artist. I guess their support of what was important to us and the people who were important to us. That's really how I remember them.

AL: I think like many older people, I just knew them at the very twilight of their lives, which is why I wanted to talk to you, we wanted to talk to you because even though they spoke of their own histories, it's different to see it as you remember them, as you knew them. And I think your father especially has such a following, like I said, people are just amazed to be in the space and they hear his voice. Of course, I think, your mom, I thought, was pretty cool too. It is interesting because it's a dual legacy, and the fact that so many people who never met them feel a connection. And I can't tell you how many times that day people said, "We feel like he's here." And some of those were people who never met him. And I just thought that was very interesting.

YN: And the year that he died, 2010, the Manzanar reunion... well, both the Manzanar Committee at the pilgrimage honored him, and the Manzanar reunion committee also chose him to be the person to be honored. And I was really pleased that my son said he would like to do that to get the talk. And the thing he said is, when he opened he said, "I remember my grandmother talking about my grandfather, but my grandmother as being very funny."

AL: I remember that, too. Yeah, she was very funny. I know I asked you what you want to see in Manzanar, I mean like literally what you want to see in Manzanar, but I'd also like to ask, in terms of this history, because these interviews are not so much for us the park rangers as for how we will educate people in years to come, and that is years beyond any of us, National Parks are forever, which is bigger than any of us. But what do you think is most important for people to know or to remember? If you could speak to the future in this moment, what would you want people to know or remember about Manzanar?

YN: That it's part of the American history, and what happened during the war, World War II, to American citizens.

AL: Are there any questions that you guys had that you would like to ask, or any topics? Is there anything, Grace, that I didn't ask you that you would like to share?

YN: No, I think that's...

AL: So on behalf of all of us here, as well as on behalf of the National Park Service at Manzanar, I just want to thank you for, not just for sharing your memories today, but for sharing your parents so generously with the public, with all of us ranger groupies, and I could tell you, they still touch people's lives, even those who did not know or love them, and that is a tremendous legacy. I think with a lot of my Nisei and Sansei friends, I think they are their greatest tribute to their parents. The difference with you is I actually knew your parents. When I think of someone like your husband's age, I didn't know their parents, but I think of who I see and who I know, and I think, wow, they must have had some incredible parents. But yours I can actually vouch for, and I just personally and also professionally just want to thank you. Thank you very much.

YN: Well, I want to thank you, too, for getting all these oral histories and giving an opportunity, especially when so many of the internees are dying, that you get their story. And I'm sorry you don't have my parents, their oral history as you would have liked to, but I appreciate this opportunity. Not so much because I think I have so much to offer, but hopefully I can say I did this an encourage other people to do it.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.