<Begin Segment 14>

KL: Where did you gather on Thursday? Tell us what that was like?

GM: I can hardly... I just remember the L.A. River, the railroad tracks by First Street Bridge, near there. But I do remember... well, we were just kids. Because I remember my kid sister, she wants to learn about the valley, Death Valley and all that, and I remember, I told her years later, I said, "You were so scared to go to camp, and I tried to comfort you by telling you that, 'Death Valley, because of the mountain ranges are so far apart and there's a lot of time for the sun to beam down. But Owens Valley, the mountains are closer.'" I still kind of remember making that story up.

KL: Were you making it up?

GM: Oh, of course. I had no idea, but I was a good storyteller, I guess.

KL: Was it Reiko who was scared?

GM: Yeah. She was only six years old at that time, I was about ten.

KL: But that's interesting that she knew something about where you were going, the geography.

GM: Well, yeah, because Reiko, academically, she was only two years behind me before the war. And then in camp, she told me later on that the teacher said, "You can't be in the third grade," so they put her back a little bit.

KL: Was it a building or anything that you gathered at, or it was a parking lot? You said it was the First Street Bridge railroad tracks where you departed for Manzanar?

GM: No, we just were taken... because we lived real close to the railroad. If you know L.A., the bridge, First Street Bridge, and then you go over there, and then we were only past, I think it's Mission Road and Henderson, I'm not sure.

KL: How did you get to Manzanar?

GM: On the train.

KL: So you just walked to the station?

GM: As far as I know. I think this Mexican man, Rodriguez, they had a moving van. I mean, I didn't know at that time, but after the war, I used to drive down First. I never stopped, I should have stopped there. And Rodriguez Moving, you know, that family was one of the families I used to spend a lot of time with. But I remember him using his truck and taking us, because I remember I had a toy that I said, "Give this to Richard," I don't know what it was, a baseball bat or something. I remember that.

KL: Was Richard a Rodriguez?

GM: Yeah. And I saw Richard one time when I was a teenager, but I thought I'd better not embarrass him. He was pachuco-like, and I was at the, one of the, International Institute on Boyle Avenue where they have dances and all that kind of stuff. I was there one day after school, and I saw Richard for the first time, I was about sixteen. But he looked like, he had a hat on, a topcoat, and he was with all the Mexican guys. I thought I might embarrass him if I said, "Hey, Richard." But I recognized him. Because he was about my age, or maybe just a year older than me, and I used to hang out with him and his friends, brothers.

Off camera: So I'm curious, because a lot of people have said they didn't know where they were going when they got on the train. But you knew you were going to Manzanar?

GM: No, I didn't know I was going to Manzanar, but I just knew that we were going someplace.

Off camera: So the story you told Reiko was after you got there, you knew you were in the Owens Valley.

GM: No, it was before we went, I remember one day she was so scared, because I guess in class she learned about Death Valley and all that. And I still remember, she was so scared, and she said, "We're going to die," and all that, "from the sun and all that."

KL: Did you think you were going to Death Valley?

GM: No, that's what she thought, she was going to a valley. I guess we must have, maybe we heard we were going to a valley, or maybe one of the older sisters may have mentioned it.

KL: Or that it was a desert.

GM: Something like that. And I still remember she was saying we're gonna die because of Death Valley or something like that. And I said, "No, no, Death Valley is special. The mountains are further apart, and that's why they call it Death Valley," and all that.

Off camera: That was sweet of you to reassure her.

GM: But she only remembers the things like, you know, I said, "You got to go with the aliens."

KL: Yeah, right. Were there people gathered there to see you off? Did Mr. Rodriguez stick around?

GM: You know, I don't remember none of that, because...

KL: What about the train ride itself? What do you recall of that? Had you been on a train before?

GM: I don't recall. I might have been, maybe in Japan or something like that. But I don't remember too much. I just remember when we went through a tunnel, like a dummy, I thought, "Oh, my god, I got to get air." And I went to the crack of the window, took all that, inhaled all that exhaust. That I remember.

KL: Do you remember any of the passing scenes or anything?

GM: No, I don't remember anything.

KL: Was the train full, or was there lots of space?

GM: I don't think I roamed around, I don't remember doing that. I just know, next thing we know, we're at Manzanar, and then...

KL: Do you recall getting from the train station to Manzanar, how that happened?

GM: I can't remember too well, but I just remember those mattresses, kind of round, stuffed like that, and then army cots like. And at that time I was telling people... it wasn't permanent, but there were potholes on the floor. And then later on, I remember the workers came in and got the end of the tin can, covered the holes up, and before they put the linoleum, then they put plasterboard on the side and on the ceiling.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.