<Begin Segment 32>

KL: Can you talk a little bit more about what kind of discrimination you experienced outside of camp, and share with us maybe some examples of what happened?

HF: Well, like getting jobs, you know. I think that was our... but then when we went to Chicago, you could get any kind of job as long as you worked. So there wasn't any discrimination, but it's before the war. Before the war and during the war, I think, it was the hardest part. Once the war ended, discrimination wasn't even thought about, you know. Because when we went to Chicago, we could find any kind of job we wanted. I don't know about the people that went back to California, I don't know what happened to them. And my husband didn't want to go back to California because he said the only jobs available is working in the fruit stand, and he didn't want to do that. But I think that changed, too.

KL: Did you guys always live on the west side of Chicago, or did you move around within the city?

HF: We moved north. Let's see. We moved north in 1961. We bought a three-flat up north.

KL: Still in the city of Chicago?

HF: Uh-huh, in the city of Chicago. And then once when I retired from, I worked for Time-Warner on Michigan Avenue, and I just worked as a clerical. And when I retired in 1981, we moved to Las Vegas.

KL: Are there any highlights from your career that you wanted to mention from your work at Time-Warner?

HF: No, I was just a worker.

KL: Any particular challenges or honors?

HF: What I remember is it was a nice building in Michigan Avenue, 540 North Michigan. And they didn't have air conditioner at that time, we had to open the windows if we wanted air. When we opened the windows, all the papers fly around. That's what I remember. But it was good working for Time-Warner. They still give me my medical.

KL: Oh.

HF: And look how long that's been.

KL: That's great, yeah.

HF: It is. And I don't pay a dime.

KL: We were talking about discrimination and how it was different in different places. And you were in Chicago when there was, in the late 1950s and into the 1960s, a lot of activism for African American rights and opportunities. Do you remember that at all?

HF: No, it didn't concern us. Where we lived, there weren't too many colored people. It was mostly all different nationalities and Japanese, and so everybody got along with everybody. Then I had to ride the subway to work. And then when the subway got kind of dangerous to ride, I took the bus. It was an Outer Drive bus, and it went down the Outer Drive. And I had no problem.

Off camera: Did you notice any changes in the city of Chicago from when you first arrived there to when you left? How did the city change?

HF: Well, of course, because I lived on the west side first, and there was a lot of blacks on the west side, it was kind of more dangerous there. And then we moved up north and it was better. So I don't know if circumstances changed or not. But then my, all my children went to school in Chicago. And went to the University of Chicago, the Circle Campus, which was downtown, and they didn't have any problem.

Off camera: Where did you move to in the north side of Chicago?

HF: I moved out to 6341 North Lakewood, so that was almost near Mundelein College. It was near Devon and Broadway, Devon and Broadway. And we were close to Evanston, we weren't too far from Evanston. Sometimes I'd fall asleep on the subway, we'd get up and go to the end of the line. Then I have to come back.

Off camera: So the reason you moved to the north side, was it was because it was getting more dangerous on the west side?

HF: Yes, it was.

Off camera: How did, did you experience any danger or did you feel...

HF: No, I just felt it. And then my husband worked on the south side, so he had to take the Outer Drive and go way... it took him an hour to get to work. But I didn't want to go to the south side either.

KL: What have I not asked you about that you expected to talk about? What have I left out that you wanted to share in an interview?

HF: Nothing that I could think of at this point.

KL: Probably five hours later we'll both be like, "Oh, I meant to..."

HF: I know, I'll probably think about that, too, later.

KL: There's, I mean, in your life, you had the trajectory of, you know, in the 1940s, someone asking you in Chicago about your national background or ethnic background and claiming to be Mexican, to now sitting here doing this interview with us. And I wondered if you would tell us sort of the -- and this is my last question, and it's kind of a big one -- but what do you think people gain by trying to kind of forget and cover up, and what do you think they gain by trying to remember?

HF: Well, I think it's better to try and remember instead of covering it up like we did. We didn't want to talk about it at all. I think we were ashamed that they put us in camp, that's why we didn't talk about it. But now, everybody's more aware of everybody else, and they're more able to get along with everybody. I think it's a better generation to be. Because I have no problem with here, with any nationality. Everybody's been really nice, especially living here, and we have all different nationalities here, too.

KL: Yeah, it sounds like that. I mean, it sounds like everybody's been nice. Well, that's all my questions. I really want to thank you personally. It's really amazing to get to hear someone sit and reflect on ninety years of life. And I want to thank you on behalf of the National Park Service, too. We really value these.

HF: Well, thank you so much for coming all the way. Yeah, thank you so much.

<End Segment 32> - Copyright © 2013 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.