Densho Digital Archive - Akiko Okuno Interview (denshovh-oakiko-01-0040)

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KL: We were talking about starting to get to your kids, and I wonder if you would tell me your children's names and when they were born, and a little something about each of them, what you think of when you think of them.

AO: Well, Ken was born in '59, and he was an old man from the get-go. [Laughs]

KL: What do you mean?

AO: To walk, he would go to a corner, nobody sees him, and practice before he let me see that he could walk. And one day he, I'm standing there in the kitchen, he was there crawling across the floor, and stood up in the corner and walked to me. And to this day, if he opened something that you have to put together, he doesn't just pull it out and put it, he reads the instructions all the way through, and then does it, and does it properly. [Laughs] But he's a very thorough person. And so when he works, I often wondered what they thought of him. He worked in the, in Washington, D.C., the patents office. And you know, in the patents office they have to check to make sure this thing has never been patented before. And I'm sure when he got finished, there were no doubt that that had not been, you know. But it was slow. He was having trouble keeping up with the quota that he was supposed to examine. But that's how he is. That's why I say he was an old man when he was born. But he's a sweetheart.

KL: Who was the next one?

AO: Next one is Satoshi Paul, and he's a charmer, adventurer. At one time he thought he was gonna be a race car driver. But he's a good driver, I totally trust him behind a wheel, and very lovely. He would come up with little gifts, but he was adventurous. One day, there was a cord in there, and he thought... he had this, whatever had, little coil, and he thought he would hook it over that. Of course, sparks flew. [Laughs] Those kinds of things. And when he learned to walk he climbed up on a table, and he was going to walk off the table, too. And that's how he was growing up, but he was very loveable, and he's gay. When he came out, I asked him did he want me to tell people, and he says no, he'd do it himself, so I let him. And then the one person he was afraid to tell, it was somebody that he'd known for a long time, and they did a lot of things together sports-wise. And then he finally told him, and he said, "So? You're the same person, aren't you? And it's the person that I love that you are, so okay."

KL: How old was he when he came out?

AO: He was an adult, I don't know, but he was in his twenties.

KL: What would your parents have thought of that, do you think?

AO: My mother would have accepted him. She wouldn't have... she would have been shocked at first, I think, but she would have understood and accepted him.

KL: What about your father?

AO: I don't know. He would haven't... he probably would not have been happy about it, but he would not have rejected him. I don't think he would have rejected him.

KL: We were talking on the way up here about kind of holes in our knowledge about Manzanar and camp life in general. And one of the things we haven't heard a lot about or asked about in interviews is, you know, gay experience in the camps or at that time.

AO: I'm sure there were closeted gays, but there wasn't a lot said. And I probably would have been the last person to even think of such things. Because for the longest time, a couple of the people that I worked with at St. Mary's were lesbians, and I would, we were the "three musketeers." And I often stayed over at their place, 'cause I was living in Richmond at the time, and when we'd have a late show or something in San Francisco, or the lab group was having a party, then I'd just stay overnight with Marge and Jan. But later, you know, I remember once, one of the people that I was working with saying, "They're that kind." And I didn't know what she was talking about. Then later it dawned on me.

KL: "The fun couple that I like to go out with?" [Laughs]

AO: I mean, they were fun people, but there was nothing... and talented, and good workers, and they were good to me and kind to everybody I knew.

KL: When was Satoshi Paul born, what year?

AO: '62. Then Tadashi Robert was born in '64, and he's the one living next door, and he has the four children. And then daughter was Akemi Jan. So those are our four, and oh, she was born '66. Is that your age, too?

KL: What are their personalities like?

AO: Well, Satoshi I told you. Tadashi is just solid, works fast and gets things accomplished, and he's not afraid. He's the first one among the four to get a job when he was quite young. The Lawrences next door hired him. He was maybe about twelve, thirteen, to pick up dog poop, and he did it. He said he hated the job, but it was money. And then while he was going to high school, he worked, once he got his driver's license, he worked for the drugstore downtown to deliver prescriptions to the elderly. And so he's always worked, and he's a good cook. Oh, Satoshi's a great cook, he does gourmet stuff. And none of 'em did I teach, have cooking at home much, they just watched me cook, but they all ended up having to cook for themselves.

KL: And Akemi Jan?

AO: She is very sharp, and she has the most patience, watching her teaching her father how to, number one, when he was trying to learn the computer because I was going to be away, so that I could send him emails. And she's just so patiently teaching him. And then before this trip, he bought himself a new digital camera, and she's teaching him. Her patience is just so great. And here I am talking about my own children. I'm so impressed with the patience. So she had been working, I forget the name of the company. But anyway, and her boss, who was attorney for the company, decided that he wanted to quit that job and he wanted to explore the world. And this is something she had been wanting to do, so that's what they did. They started in New Zealand, and it was only going to be like a month in New Zealand and then go on to Australia, and then go on to Southeast Asia. Well, they were in New Zealand for about a half a year, and then they came back for some reason. And then they went to Thailand. Yeah, it was Thailand. And while in Thailand, of course, Akemi, her visa would... so she'd go to another country. I don't know exactly how that worked, but she'd go to Laos or somewhere to get the visa renewed, and she'd go back to Thailand. So she was in Thailand for about a year or more.