<Begin Segment 7>

RP: Let's talk about the garden that Mr. Kato built for your family there. Do you remember him constructing the garden there?

SK: Yes, he was a very quiet, very humble man. Mr., what's his name?

RP: Kato.

SK: Mr. Kato, yes, right.

RP: Did he have other people working with him on that garden?

SK: No, he did have some, one time, yeah, there was a little, I think, Mexican boy. He was helping him. He was carrying the heavy things. But Mr. Kato would always do everything himself, putting the rocks in place, and he's looking at the rocks and this rock, "Oh, this has to be over here. This has to be..." There's rocks, there's different, the faces of the rocks, he was, "This has to be faced so and so." Oh yes, he's very particular.

RP: You remember how long it took for him to build the garden?

SK: It took a long time. That, I know. In the meantime, I think my mother was, came to Los Feliz, lived in Los Feliz then, started a flower shop there. But it was a nice, beautiful garden.

RP: Right. You had a bridge there and a large pond.

SK: Yes, yes. Waterfall and all that. We had a beautiful pond with regular koi. You know, those carps. That was nice.

RP: Do you recall some of the plants or flowers that were planted in that garden?

SK: In the garden, gee, they planted all kinds, I know. I know there was, as I recall, there was, they called it saru suberi. Now it's called the salzberry, that's what it was. But you know, when you call saru suberi, it's like the monkey sliding down from the, on a limb. And my grandmother used to say, "Oh, that is saru suberi." And come to think of it, it's called salzberry, salzberry. [Laughs] And I thought, "Oh, that's when the monkey climbed down from the tree there." Yeah, we had that. We had, I know there was different kind of pine trees, Japanese pine they used to always clip down. And we had, oh god, different, which I've forgotten, but different kind of, they're all in the bonsai. They're all cut bonsai style. So my grandfather was out there every day, trimming this and trimming that to keep it down.

RP: So he maintained the...

SK: Yeah, he maintained. He loved to do that. My grandma too, she used to pick up -- you know the plants, you're not supposed to cut with a, you're just supposed to just pick it with your hands. So every day they were at that, and that was their enjoyment.

RP: Do you know how the initial connection was made with Mr. Kato to come do the garden? Was it one of your uncles?

SK: Somehow, I don't know, Mr. Kato and... I don't know. He used to come and, I don't know what this connection was. He used to come and ask for different things, or inquire about different things, and they kind of worked together.

KP: Richard, could you ask about property ownership on the ranch, who owned it, what their status was? I'm just curious.

RP: What was the status of the property ownership?

SK: The ownership, she had, she was in oil wells, Mr., no, that was Mrs... you know, I can't think of her name. I can see her face as well as daylight now. She was one of these women that had properties, but she had oil wells here and there, and then after her husband passed on, I don't know how many years -- and she had one son, he was a playboy, and that's where all her money started going, I think. That was the only son. He was a nice-looking fellow, though, but he's the one that squandered all her money. And finally toward the end, after many years -- we'd been there for many years -- she had to sell the ranch. She said she ran out of money, she had to sell the ranch, so she asked the family if they would buy the ranch. And I think she did give it us very, very reasonable, which I don't know how much.

KP: Whose name?

RP: Whose name was the ranch put in?

SK: In those days I don't know what it was, 'cause we're still young yet, and you had to be an American citizen.

RP: A Nisei.

SK: Yes.

RP: So was it, it might've been your name?

SK: Which I don't know. My grandparents and my mother, they're the one that did all the, and the uncle, the one that passed on, they're the one that did all the transactions, so I don't know. But she did have a wonderful lawyer, and he's the one that more or less took care of everything.

RP: Your mom did?

SK: No, no, this, Mrs. Leonard Haines, that's her name. Mrs. Leonard Haines.

RP: Okay.

SK: She's the one that owned that property.

KP: Haines Canyon.

SK: Haines.

RP: Is that...

KP: Yeah, that's part of the canyons over there, Haines Canyon.

SK: Is that right?

KP: Haines Canyon Boulevard.

SK: Is that so?

RP: Here I thought it was the heir to the underwear fortune. It wasn't Hanes underwear.

SK: Haines Canyon, huh?

KP: Haines Canyon Boulevard is right over there in Sun Valley.

SK: Well, we were, there's a place called Roscoe.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright &copy; 2011 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.