<Begin Segment 15>
RP: And do you remember who your block manager was?
MN: Well, all I know is Seigo Murakami.
RP: Oh, Mr. Murakami was the block manager?
MN: Yeah, yeah. And I found out that he was from North Hollywood and judo sensei, rokudan, that's sixth degree. Then found out that joined the judo club he had an assistant, Tashima. He was a mean sucker.
RP: What would he do?
MN: Huh? Well he doesn't try to mingle with the student much. He didn't want that. He wanted to keep it apart. So anytime when you practicing and he sees you goofing off, that's, he'll separate you and he'll get another sensei to take care of one and he will take care of another. And before you get to even grab him he'll use ashibara like that. You go ooooh. He didn't give you... then he'll throw you about three or four times. Then he will let you hang onto him and practice. But he was a mean sucker. He let us know that...
RP: Who, who's boss.
MN: Yeah. Yeah.
RP: So he'd throw you a few times and...
MN: Yeah, oh yeah.
RP: You'd get the message. Wow. So had you taken... you never had taken judo before until you came to Manzanar?
MN: Right. Yeah. Because my father used to take judo in Japan, see. So he wanted us to take judo. On top of that the main honcho, Murakami, was right...
RP: Right there.
MN: ...right next door to our apartment.
RP: He wanted to get all the kids into judo.
MN: Yeah, yeah.
RP: So did judo, taking judo have any benefit to you?
MN: Well, yeah, more or less, discipline and you respect the elder. So he teach you and you don't try to pick a fight. You, you respect other people and things.
RP: If somebody messes with you, you know what to do with them.
MN: Yeah.
RP: Now, when did you start taking judo? Was it when the dojo was built?
MN: Yeah, when the dojo was built, yeah.
RP: Do you remember seeing that building being built?
MN: Yes, yes. My father used to take us around and showin' us this gonna be the judo and all that.
RP: It was an interesting structure because it had no central beams, like center beams, at all.
MN: Yeah, right. Yeah. But, even, it was a pretty good dojo for in Manzanar like that. Amazing, come to think of it now after... and we had, when Murakami left North Hollywood dojo, some police chief took over his... so they made arrangements for, from that new dojo the police chief would bring student to Manzanar to compete with us. And this, not only it was boys, but it was girls in there, you see. And we'd get matched up with the girls.
RP: You actually practiced with the girls?
MN: Yeah. But you have that funny feeling, where you gonna grab?
RP: Where you gonna grab 'em? [Laughs]
MN: [Laughs] Yeah, we had that problem.
RP: Wow. That was actually, yeah, Jack Sergil, do you remember that name?
MN: Yeah, yeah.
RP: He's the guy that took over the dojo.
MN: Took over, okay. He's the chief of police.
RP: Yeah, and he brought up his students and after the word got back to the Herald Examiner or somebody that, that women had been practicing with Japanese men and there was a big, big...
MN: Yeah, oh yeah. A write-up on that?
RP: ...big scandal. Yeah.
MN: Is that right?
RP: A big write-up about it.
MN: Well, we never heard about that.
RP: I'll have to tell, I'll have to show you some of the stories that were printed. It was a terrible scandal.
MN: Oh.
RP: And Jack had to leave the police force.
MN: Is that right?
RP: And then but he started a new career as a movie star.
MN: Is that right.
RP: Teaching judo to James Cagney.
MN: Oh.
RP: Yeah.
Off Camera: So, how were those girls at judo? Were they good? The girls that you...
MN: Yeah. They're, yeah. They're not as aggressive but they're okay. But, thing is, you don't, you don't want to go down in a wrestling with them. You have that funny feeling so you try to just do standing, not grapple.
RP: Treat 'em gently?
MN: Yeah. You, you kind of hold back. You can't go real hard.
RP: It's an interesting situation to be in.
MN: Yeah, right. Oh, I didn't know they had a scandal on that thing, after we got back.
RP: Was it just one occasion where the, where the women were there? The girls came up?
MN: Yeah, yeah.
RP: And how far did you go along? I mean, what rank did you obtain in judo?
MN: Oh, okay. You start from beginning, white belt. Then you work, work your way up to green belt. From green to purple belt. Then from purple you could work up to brown belt, first, second, something like that. Then you reach the top of brown belt, then from there you go into black belt. It called a shodan, first degree shodan.
RP: So you got to brown belt.
MN: Yeah, up to brown belt.
RP: Now after you left Manzanar did you continue judo at all?
MN: No, no.
RP: So it was just a camp experience.
MN: Yeah camp, yeah.
RP: And they had exhibitions and where people came and watched you compete?
MN: Just camp people.
RP: Camp people.
MN: Yeah, that's all. Yeah, because mostly tournament was elimination. You start with your own degree people. Then you keep on goin' until you, you get defeated. Until then you keep on going. So, that kind of tournament.
RP: You, you told us about sensei Tashima was some bad-ass guy. What, what was Murakami like? Was he as tough and...
MN: Oh, Seigo?
RP: Seigo.
MN: Seigo Murakami. No, he was, everybody looked up to him. He's sensei. And he had two sons. Yeah, so everybody respected him, and just like father.
<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2011 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.