<Begin Segment 15>

RP: This is tape three of a continuing interview with Toshio Ebiashi.

TA: No, Aiboishi.

RP: Aiboshi. I keep practicing. Aiboshi.

TA: You can't ever mispronounce a Japanese name. [Laughs]

RP: I just did. [Laughs] I did pretty good on the phone, though.

TA: I know. After all these, all this time, you should... I don't know why no, anyone has not explained that to you. [Laughs]

RP: Right, right. Let's see, tell me about how, how has it been sharing your story with the kids, the camp story?

TA: I don't think they're very interested. But they have all gone to the Japanese American National Museum. I said, "That is a must." So they know that, but they have not expressed much interest in what has happened, nor do I keep talking about it. They do know that, "Oh, there, that's Mom's camp friend." [Laughs] But that's about the extent of it. I don't think they feel any outrage over the situation. I don't think, I just think they're apathetic. It's just, it happened in history.

RP: Were you involved, directly or indirectly, with the process to get redress or reparations? And what were your feelings about that movement?

TA: I thought, well, they certainly waited long enough until enough people died that they didn't have to give out very much money, is how I felt. And that the people who needed it the most were our parents, who suffered the most.

RP: And most of the people who got it were Niseis.

TA: Right. But they waited until they died, is how I feel. But I do feel that our circumstance as a result of all that probably put us in a better position economically, because it widened our horizons in terms of education and opportunity, and had that not happened, it's hard to project what would've happened to the Japanese community. But I do also know that when we get down to, like the fourth generation, third and fourth, that there are so many intermarriages racially that it's, I don't know whether the Japanese American community will remain the same as it had been, say, prior to the war, or just postwar. I don't see that happening very much now.

RP: What do you, or do you feel that Americans learned anything, any lessons from experience that you went through or experience that was subjected on Japanese Americans? Do you see, has the country learned anything since that time in terms of dealing with other groups, minority groups or organizations?

TA: Sometimes, but not very much. I think they've just taken it as an isolated situation. I don't, I don't see a big JA community saying, "We are going to take up the, take up the cause for some other group" too much. I think they've remained kind of unto themselves, generally speaking. You know, there is a group, there is, but it is not widespread that there is an outrage over the whole the thing. It just happened. And certainly if they wanted to do that again today, I don't think we would just say, "Oh, shikata ga nai." I think we would fight.

RP: Japanese Americans would, or Americans in general?

TA: Yeah, I think so. I don't think they would just be as passive as they were then, as a result of that. But I don't know whether that would translate into feeling the same outrage if that happened to somebody else. They might. But that has not occurred again, so maybe America has learned something.

RP: So generally, how did the camp experience shape your life?

TA: It expanded, in terms of my making many lifelong friends... I don't, I don't know. I haven't really reflected what, I haven't said, "Gee, if that didn't happen, where would I be today?" It's hard to imagine, whether I would be where, in a home that's fairly comfortable and whatnot. I certainly think that our parents would, the ambition that they tried to instill in us to be good students, good citizens, would've translated into part of it, but it's hard to know what would've happened. One does not know what would occur. Say, "There was, if there was no war, what would've happened?" That kind of thing.

RP: Like we were talking about earlier, that the war really defines --

TA: Yes, because for all of us, everything is prewar or war or postwar, and we are talking about World War II. We are not talking about any other war because that was the defining point of a change in our life totally. And so when we came out of camp the question was, "Where were, what camp, or where were you put?" And we always knew that that was where it related to a camp. We also, another change that... I remember another question, that was, "Is that a safe place to live? Is a house up for sale?" Okay, "Is that a good place to go?" That meant, "Are they going to accept Japanese in that community? Do you know that?" That was that question. Because we knew that, okay, if you were on this side of Crenshaw before, it was okay, but if you were trying to get on the other side they wouldn't sell to you, and so we thought maybe, the question is, "Is that a safe place to go?" or, "Is that a good place?" That meant, "Are they, can Japanese be, buy a house there?" Now people don't think about that too much, except there are some communities where if you were "different" you probably would stand out and might feel ostracized or looked upon as different.

RP: Is there any other story or experience that we haven't touched on that you feel inclined to share with us?

TA: I haven't thought about it too much. [Laughs] I probably will afterwards.

RP: It'll be a lot afterwards.

TA: But I think one of the best things is that when we do have our reunions, so to speak, that we have this commonality that I think probably, maybe high schoolers do, but this, ours is much deeper than just going to school and having gone to high school dances and things. Ours was hardship.

RP: Tosh, thank you so, so much. This was a very touching interview.

TA: Hopefully that's helpful, I don't know.

RP: Thanks from Kirk and myself.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright &copy; 2011 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.