<Begin Segment 10>

RP: So Jerry Nara, he was the one who took you to the train station in Elk Grove?

DT: Jerry Kara, yes.

RP: Kara, right. And can you take us back to that time at the train station? What it was like, what do you remember about just what the scene was like at that time?

DT: Well, the only thing I can remember was it was pretty hot. And we had to wait here, wait there, everything was wait and everything was in line. And you have to wait for... it's funny, when your mom and dad is with you, I guess you feel pretty secure. If I was sixteen or seventeen or married I guess I would really resent it and I'm sure my mom and dad had bad feelings but they never showed it to us.

RP: And tell us, you began to describe a little bit how a community of Florin was sort of divided up and who went to what camp and also maybe you can work in Mary Tsukamoto because there was apparently some ill feelings generated by the perception that she was in charge of telling people where they went.

DT: Okay, people living on west side of railroad track went to Tule Lake and people living on east side of the railroad track went to Manzanar or Jerome. They first went to Fresno Assembly Center, but everybody who went to sign up in the morning on the east side of the railroad track were all going to Jerome and anyone after Jerome was all filled up, no let's see, okay, everybody after Jerome certain number of people were assigned to Jerome and we did not, our family did not go to sign up in the morning. Well, Mary was in charge, kind of, she was really, she was very active in JACL and she was there trying to make sure everybody got assigned to different places. Well, all her relatives were... we're her relative too because she is my mother's cousin's wife. Well, she made sure all the relatives went to Jerome, Fresno and Jerome, well, we showed up late and she forgot about us. There were so many details and she says, "Oh my goodness, Nittas, I forgot get them signed up to Jerome to go with the relatives," so she had to cross off a family that was signed up to go to Jerome and she got 'em off the Jerome list and put 'em into Manzanar. And so they found out that Mary was involved so they were very, very unhappy so when we came back, they were working at my dad's grape, I don't know, I guess they were, I don't know where they were living I guess they must have been living in Lodi and they came from Lodi or maybe they were renting in Florin. But anyway, this lady was, oh, my mother's good friend and she says, "I am going to kill that Mary Tsukamoto because she cut us off from Jerome and put you people in." I think to the day she died she hated Mary Tsukamoto. But it was too bad that we were the one that knocked them off.

RP: Knocked them off.

DT: But she really resented it and there was nothing we could do, it was all over and done with 'cause we didn't know she did that. After the fact we found out but she was telling my mom, she says, "I'm going to kill that woman." Well, they really wanted to go to Jerome but they ended up in Manzanar.

RP: You got on a train at Elk Grove to go to Fresno.

DT: Yes.

RP: Was that your first train ride?

DT: Yes, I think it was.

RP: What was that like for you?

DT: Well, there was no air conditioner, it was pretty hot, but that's all I could remember. I think it was straight shot, when we went from Fresno to Jerome they stopped us, put us on the side when there were troop trains we had to put our shade down and everything. But I don't think that happened between Elk Grove and Fresno.

RP: Were there soldiers in the train cars?

DT: Yes, there were soldiers with guns at Elk Grove, you know, there were soldiers all over because we were the enemy and we could've all got shot if we didn't behave.

RP: Do you remember wearing the little ID tags on your clothing?

DT: I'm sure I did but those small details kind of, I can't remember. Yeah, 'cause when I see pictures of other people, they all have tags so I did too I think but I'm sorry I didn't save it.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright &copy; 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.