<Begin Segment 1>

RP: Manzanar National Historic Site. This morning we're talking with Aya Fujii and Taka Mizote and our interview is taking place at the Residence Inn at the Portland airport. The date of the interview is July 22, 2010. The interviewer is Richard Potashin and our videographer is Mark Hatchmann. We'll be talking with Taka and Aya about their experiences being removed from their communities during World War II and sent briefly to the Portland Assembly Center and then later on to the Farm Labor Security Administration Camp in Eastern Oregon. Our interview will be archived in the Park's Library. And do I have both of your permission to go ahead and conduct our interview?

TM: Yes.

RP: Thank you both so much. We're really honored to have you here this morning to share your stories. Like to start out the interview acquiring a little family background, first of all can you, both of you give us your date of birth and where you were born?

TM: I was born on May 30, 1924.

RP: And where?

TM: In Hillsboro, Oregon.

AF: I was born March 31, 1927, in Hillsboro.

RP: And what were your given names at birth?

TM: Taka.

AF: Mine was Aya and I think we're out of the five girls we're the only ones with Japanese names.

RP: Why would that be?

AF: We have no idea because the rest have English names.

RP: Why don't we go over your other brothers and sisters maybe starting the oldest first, give us their name and maybe just a little bit of what you remember most about them or what sticks out in your mind about --

TM: The eldest was George, we all just had one... none of us have middle names. George was the eldest and of course he was born in Washington, Sumner, Washington, and the rest of the family, they were all born in Hillsboro. And being the eldest he always took on the responsibility of taking care of the rest of us. And then Akira, we call him Ike was, well, he was a big part of the success of the farm too because he... before he went into service. And then Arthur, well, in a way the three brothers were the ones that really held, you know, took care of the economics of the family and farm. And then Kate, and she being the eldest of the girls was like a second mother to all of us. And myself and then Aya and Dorothy and Rose.

RP: Were you born at the farm or did your mom have to go to a hospital to deliver you?

TM: We were all born at home I think.

AF: I know my youngest sister was born at home. That's what I remember.

TM: I think we were all born at home.

RP: Would a midwife --

AF: Probably a midwife.

RP: And how about your, both of your names, since you're the only two that had Japanese names. Are you familiar with the meaning of your Japanese first and last names?

TM: People ask but... well, actually my name is, you know, a lot of men in Japan are named Taka, it should be Takako but I don't like the K-O on it so I've been you know.

AF: And I think my name is derived from iris. Ayame is an iris. I'm not called Ayame but then....

RP: And your maiden name?

TM: Our maiden name was Iwasaki.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

TP: Tell us a little bit about your father. He was the first one to come to America. What was his name?

TM: Yasukichi, in fact we have the whole history written up on our parents.

AF: He was called Billy by his, you know, neighbors because Yasukichi was too hard to pronounce but he was a very laid back man. My mother was more of the, --

TM: We were a matriarchal family.

RP: Where in Japan did you father come from?

AF: They were born in...

TM: Shiga-ken.

AF: Shiga-ken. I don't know whether anything about the little provinces and the little hamlets that they have.

RP: I'm learning.

AF: You have heard, and they probably knew each other's families, and Mom came over as a picture bride. And dad came over earlier and he never went back to Japan once he came over. It's amazing, but he never went back and my mother's gone back several times but like she was the middle of three sisters and she came over when she was eighteen on a boat.

RP: Do much about your father's early life in Japan?

TM: Well, I think he came, you know, in his teens, late teens, and I don't know how the story is, they came as a stowaway, you know. And he went to Montana and then ventured into Seattle area and... what did he do in Seattle?

AF: I don't know but I heard that he lived in a boxcar.

RP: Did he work on the railroad?

TM: He could have, he could have, but he must have had... see, my dad's younger brother in Japan married my mother's older sister so they knew, you know, even they say "picture bride," there must have been because that's how it happened and so my first cousins they came... live in Vancouver, I mean, the other uncles and aunts. So it was very interesting because even though they're "picture brides" they had, knew they came from good blood I guess. what I'm saying?

RP: Did you ever ask your father why he came to America or did he ever share that with you?

AF: We probably never asked but, I mean, they probably all came as an adventure to, I don't know, when he was so young that he came over to make a fortune or anything like that, but you know, yes.

RP: Do how much schooling he had in Japan before he came over?

TM: How much what?

AF: Schooling.

RP: How much schooling?

TM: I don't know, but remarkably he learned... he wrote a diary every day, every day of his life. And he got his... he was one of the oldest to get citizenship when they were allowed to get citizenship. Do you remember how old he was?

AF: It was in 1950-something.

TM: But he was certainly a scholar in that way that he wanted to... and he read well, you know, Japanese of course but he was always up on, you know, politics and things like that.

AF: All of his diaries were sent down to L.A. weren't they? Into the museum.

TM: Into the museum, Japanese museum.

AF: I mean stacks of, you know, of diaries. And so one day I looked up the day I was... I mean on March 31, 1927, and it says that he took a sack of potatoes into town and a bale of hay. Incidentally I was born, I was the last entry of that page. [Laughs]

TM: But yes, he just, you know, it's amazing that he wrote a diary every day. And the year he passed on it was sporadic.

RP: It was all in Japanese.

TM: All in Japanese.

AF: Well, then he wrote down the temperature of the day and things like that you know.

TM: It's amazing, yes.

RP: Aya, you mentioned that your dad was kind of laid back. Anything else that either one of you can share, the most vivid memory of your dad?

TM: There were about... I don't know how many Japanese families in Washington county and that encompassed like Beaverton and Hillsboro and several other communities around there. And there was a community of more Japanese in Banks, Oregon, it's a little small town, and because they had more Japanese there, there must have been about a dozen Japanese families there. And that was probably, in those days it took us about an hour to get there but now you'd get there in about twenty minutes. But the Japanese wanted to have their own organization, association, so that they would, you know, have social and business contacts with other Japanese in the area. And my dad was, you know, he was the leader or the community leader for a long time.

RP: So he was organizing folks and --

TM: Well, yes.

RP: And how about your mother, what was her name?

AF: Ito.

TM: Ito.

AF: Ito, it's I-T-O.

RP: And she also came from Shiga?

TM: Yes, she came from Shiga also.

RP: And what can you share with us about your mother when you think about her physically and also personality wise.

AF: Well, she's very strong willed.

TM: Dominant.

AF: But she had to be, you know, with five of us.

TM: Well, I think we owe a lot to her for the success of the farm and things because she made sure that we got out there to work hard and...

AF: We had to work hard before we went to some social and worked hard because we went to the social.

RP: You had to earn the social. What other values or lessons did you get from your parents that stuck with you your whole life?

TM: Well, education was foremost. And then education and not to... and to be a good citizen, not to --

AF: Bring shame to the family and all that sort of thing, yes.

RP: And your parents were married in Seattle, Washington?

AF: Yes, they were married in Seattle weren't they?

TM: Yes.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

RP: So your father possibly worked on the railroad or worked in Washington for a while perhaps acquired enough money to invest in a farm?

TM: Well, I think they, after they got married they lived in Sumner, Washington, which is another small area outside of Seattle and then they ventured into Oregon. And they, I think they farmed in a little place near Hillsboro and I don't know how far it was from Hillsboro but I remember Dad saying that he walked into Hillsboro over the hill, I don't know whether he had a horse, he didn't have a car. Because he says, I climbed, you know, the hill and went way down to buy bread. I remember him mentioning that.

RP: So eventually he was able to acquire a farm?

TM: Right.

RP: And did he... at that time Isseis were not allowed because of not being naturalized citizens to own land so how did he get around that?

TM: Well, you know, I think if my oldest brother was still living but I think he homesteaded, where the farm is now, and it's still there. Because that's how they acquired... and then my brother has ownership.

RP: That was usually done to get around the discriminatory aspect of that.

TM: That's right.

AF: But that fifty acres is what they have now that it's come down the generation and it's the very original farm.

RP: And so who runs that farm now?

AF: It would be George's son. And they want to... it's quite a big operation, it's a nursery and they want to keep it in the family so the grandson's daughters are involved in it, yes.

RP: So that's, what, over eighty almost ninety years?

AF: Yes, James Iwasaki is the son.

TM: It's also in Ike's kid's names too.

AF: Huh?

TM: It's also in Ike's children's names too.

RP: So what do you remember about growing up on that farm?

TM: Well, we... I think we got a long okay, I mean, you know. [Laughs]

AF: Well, we had to get up early when we... I remember having an asparagus field and we had to cut the asparagus field before we went to school, and after we came home we cut it again because that asparagus just grew during the day. But we had to get up and cut the asparagus and change our clothes and catch the bus and start all over again here.

TM: See, we had, the main crop was strawberries and our dad rented acreage away from our farm to raise strawberries and then on our home place we had truck garden so it was green beans and tomatoes and cucumbers and, you know, asparagus and all this other truck farming. And so after, you know, summer months all my friends would be going on vacation or... we could never go on vacation, we had to work. So, you know, it just seemed like we always had to, you know, work. But I think we're better for all of that, I think.

RP: Now tell me a little bit about the Hillsboro area, the community. Was it primarily Caucasian, where there other Japanese American farmers?

TM: There were very few, maybe --

AF: One family that had that grocery store.

TM: Yes, they had a fruit stand. And actually that's about, well, there was another family that lived close by but they went and moved up to Banks, see, the Banks is the area where all the Japanese owned strawberry fields. And so they moved up there but outside of that, we were primarily, you know, one of the few.

RP: So you had a farmhouse on the property?

TM: Oh, yes.

RP: And what was that like living, did you have electricity, did you have running water?

TM: Well, no, we didn't have electricity I remember when we first got electricity though. [Laughs] But yes, barn and we had, I don't know how many buildings we had on there. I remember we had a smokehouse because we didn't have refrigerator or anything like that. No, I remember... do you remember?

AF: Mom made root beer.

TM: Yes, but we had a smokehouse where Dad hung, you know, the bacon, not the bacon but the ham and sawdust underneath and outhouses.

RP: All the luxuries of farm living.

AF: Well, just before the war, this was in 1940 I guess, evidently the folks started to build a new home and it was built and just when the war broke out we were still in the old house, but they were building the house and before the new house was finished, Dad wanted us to move in, you know, so we could just live there. So we only lived there just few weeks into this brand new home that had indoor plumbing and all that and it was pretty sad that... and then we left it to rent it out to a physician and two little kids and locked all of our storage thing in one room and padlocked it. I guess it was still there, somebody came to check, one of the missionaries came by to check on it one day and I think it was okay but the house was --

TM: Well, also, every time our brothers had furlough they were able to go and check on the farm. And because, you know, our farm was the only one that we had the farm, the neighboring, the Japanese that lived in the outskirts, they wanted to store their things in our barn and stuff too.

RP: Did they?

TM: Yes, 'cause we had greenhouses and we had several greenhouses and like I say, barn and then there was another -- shed.

AF: Shed.

TM: Well, it was more than a shed because that's where when they had hired help, to house hired help, and so there were quite a few dwellings on the farm.

RP: So who would be hired for extra help on the farm?

TM: Well, if it was strawberry time, they would get the school kids and then they would come down to Portland, my brothers would come down and get the street people. And then we had I don't know how many steady people that would work year round. It was a little, there was one man, he was kind of like a hermit, but he was the one person that always, the farm could always depend on him to do things.

RP: And what was growing in the greenhouses?

TM: Flower and tomato plants, seedlings?

RP: So you started the plants in the greenhouses and then set them out? Was your father as a farmer very innovative in terms of, I mean, a lot of these Issei farmers had to be, you know, like part carpenter, part mechanic, part farmer. Was he kind of progressive in the way he worked his land?

TM: I think so, yes. Gosh I don't remember him, in his older years he just spaded a whole, it looked like a whole acre by hand, you know. But I don't think it was a whole acre.

AF: He always had a hoe in his hand and was always scratching weeds, you know, even into the ditch he'd be scratching the weeds out. But he always had a hoe in his hand.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

RP: And what schools did you attend?

TM: See, I graduated in 1942 but I wasn't able to get my diploma because we, you know, I was banned from... the curfew. But I went to Hillsboro schools, grade school and junior high and high school.

RP: How about you, Aya?

AF: I just finished my freshman year at Hillsboro and then I went to Nyssa High School, graduated there.

RP: What was the racial composition of the school system, you mentioned there weren't too many Japanese Americans.

TM: No, very few.

RP: I assume there weren't very many in school.

AF: Probably just another family.

TM: Yes, oh, very few.

RP: So how were you treated?

TM: Oh, very well, yes. In fact, there was one other Japanese fellow that... a family and he was star of basketball player and then he held student body.

RP: What types of religious activities, school activities or sports were you involved in before the war broke out?

TM: Well, I was involved in like YWCA groups and pep club. I wasn't very smart but then I liked to have good time. [Laughs]

RP: How about you, Aya?

AF: Well, since I was just a freshman I just remember that I was a secretary for the freshman class which was quite an honor for me and other than that, we went on... in fact, school wasn't over yet when we had to move.

RP: One of you was involved in a 4H club, weren't you?

TM: I was a 4H, were you in 4H?

AF: Yes, I was in 4H and I remember making muffins.

TM: Oh, yes.

AF: And I was so embarrassed... what it looked like.

RP: Did you... when I hear 4H I associate with raising animals.

TM: Isn't that something, no, it was all --

RP: Home economics?

TM: Yes, more economics yes.

RP: Oh, interesting. What kind of religious background did your parents and you have?

AF: Well, our parents were Buddhist and whenever they had their meetings or monthly gatherings, we went along because they always served cookies and I remember that was why we went but we didn't understand a thing they were saying.

TM: 'Cause it was all in Japanese.

AF: Yes, we went through the rituals of the gongs and all that kind of stuff, but I know we just went for the refreshments.

TM: And they would gather in homes like our home was often a place where the neighboring, I mean, the Japanese would come.

RP: Was there a Buddhist temple in the area or was that nearest one in Portland?

AF: No.

TM: No, we had to go into Portland.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

RP: How about other holidays that got celebrated, your father sounds like he had a very strong optimistic attitude toward America and probably encouraged you to be as American as you could be.

TM: Right.

RP: How did that translate into holidays?

AF: Well, I think New Year's probably was the, probably the biggest. And I remember we had to clean house the day before from top to bottom, you know, and make sure that all your debts were paid. That was one of the biggest holidays.

TM: Yes, oh, yes.

RP: How about mochitsuki?

TM: Oh yes, we would do that. In fact, that was quite a thing we looked forward in doing that. And Dad, you know, he had the little fire, actual fire and we would do it in the greenhouse because then he would do it and then my brothers would get the rice and steam it. You apparently know all about mochitsuki and then, yes, that was a big day for us because we had to go from the house the greenhouse and back and forth and bring that.

AF: The pounding, that you know, pounding with that thing.

RP: So what would you use to pound the rice with?

TM: With the mallet.

AF: Wooden mallets.

RP: Now was that reserved for, was the mallets reserved for men or did the women or did you actually pound?

TM: Well, anybody actually but it was predominantly men.

RP: 'Cause the picture that I see, it always the women sort of turning the rice.

TM: Right, my mother did that. We miss that because that's kind of, you know, it was kind of a fun --

AF: People would bring in, people that wanted to make twenty pounds would bring their rice over and we would have to do it for them.

TM: Steam it.

RP: So your household was quite a community gathering?

TM: It was, it was.

RP: How about another important holiday during the year was Boy's and Girl's Day?

TM: We didn't observe Girl's Day that much, I don't know why. Our sister-in-law, my brother's... our oldest brother's wife, she was of very Japanese tradition because she spent many years in Japan, so she brought into our family a lot of Japanese cultures. But up until then we grew up, I mean, hardly knowing about Girl's Day. She had the whole Girl's Day display up and so we learned from her, but we didn't really as we were growing up.

RP: When did you become aware of your Japanese-ness growing up?

TM: Well, probably, well more predominantly when the war broke out.

AF: Well, I think, you know, growing up we were kind of feeling ashamed that we were different, you know. And our folks were poor and like we had to wear stockings, everyone else wore knee high stockings and we had to wear the ones that rolled all the way up. And when we went to school we rolled them down so we looked like the rest of them, you know.

RP: So there was always a effort to fit in and not stand out?

AF: Yes, tried to fit in right.

RP: So would this have been during the Depression years?

TM: I think, yes, right.

RP: And you mentioned that your father had a new house built.

TM: Well, that was just before the war and I think another reason is because my brother, oldest brother just got married.

AF: Yes, he got married, let's see, it was an arranged marriage.

TM: Yes.

RP: It was? And who did he marry?

TM: But the families, we knew each other.

AF: But it was, I mean, everything happened all at once you know, 1942 is when we evacuated and they got married in February of 1942. And so all the rest of us except our two brothers and George and his wife, you know, I mean, there was really no privacy for them.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

RP: One other question about growing up. How did you communicate with your parents? How much of a barrier was the language?

TM: There wasn't any because we grew up speaking Japanese and my oldest brother had the hardest time when he went to school because he, you know, he didn't know very much English. And he was really taunted when he went to school but the rest of us, we just, well, I think through my brothers we all learned how to speak English, you know, because they're older than we were. But I do know that George really had a hard time when he was going to school.

RP: Were any of your siblings sent back to Japan at all for schooling?

TM: No, we just went as a tourist, you know, afterwards, but none of us left... I know there are many families that said after school, the parents sent them to Japan, but no, none of us.

RP: Do you recall your dad sending money back to family in Japan?

TM: Yes.

AF: I think Mom took several of us back to Japan just to visit and stayed like two months at a time, right?

TM: Yes, but then we never, you know, like a lot of families send their kids to Japan for study or but none of us.

RP: Right, they become the ones referred to as Kibei.

TM: Right.

RP: Did either one of you attend a Japanese language school when you were growing up?

AF: Oh, yes, we both went to Japanese school.

TM: See, here again, you know, we had this school in Banks where there was more Japanese living and we went once a week on a Sunday to go for maybe six, seven hours, maybe not even that much.

RP: So you had time after school during the week to --

TM: No, we had a little homework but we went there just to visit with our Japanese friends. And so we were not... [Laughs]

RP: Do you recall any other social activities that you were involved with while you were growing up on the farm?

TM: Yes, we had a young Japanese group that we would have social dances and that was about it. Well, we had picnics, I guess, we had a picnic in the summer time at a park, you know, that was not too far away.

RP: Was that a kenjinkai type of picnic?

TM: Yes, that kind.

AF: It was like a community picnic.

RP: And that was in Hillsboro?

TM: No, it was between Banks and Hillsboro there was a park that we would go to. Yes, those are the events that we kind of looked forward to, my mother would say, "Well, we're going to take you to the picnic so you got to work hard." And after we went to the picnic she says, "Well, you got to work hard because I took you to the picnic." [Laughs] We had to work for it and we had work...

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

RP: So when you came home from school were you also expected to work?

AF: Yes.

TM: Oh, yes.

AF: They had, at least I remember raising tomatoes and we had to pack the tomatoes for market, early morning market. Or even bunching of asparagus, we had to sort through the asparagus so my mother would bunch them and things like that.

RP: And your father would haul his produce into Portland?

TM: Well, Dad and my oldest brother.

RP: Did you ever go with them?

TM: No, because they would go at crack of dawn, I mean like, two, three clock in the morning to get, they said they had to get a good stall at the market.

RP: So there was a produce market in Portland?

TM: Right.

RP: It sounds like you were rather self sufficient on the farm in terms of a lot of your food.

TM: We were.

RP: You mentioned you had hams and you have chickens?

TM: Chickens and cows and pork. I remember when Dad shot the pig and you know...

AF: He made head cheese.

TM: Yes, he made head cheese.

RP: So what responsibilities did you have with the younger siblings? Were you responsible for taking care of them?

TM: Well, we all kind of did took care of one another, I mean, I guess it's just a normal, you know, sibling.

AF: Yes, everyone just kind of watched out for each other I guess. None of us really got hurt or you know.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

RP: Let's shift over to a very defining moment in your lives as well as all Americans, that was December 7, 1941. Tell us what you remember about that day and how you heard the news of the tragic bombing of Pearl Harbor.

TM: Well, I remember my brother, George was in the... working outside and he came in and he told my folks the war broke out with Japan. And it was just a shock, I mean, we didn't know there was any problems with the two countries. I mean, we weren't aware I should say, so it was real shock.

AF: Yes, we had this old Philco radio in the house and like Taka said, that we were probably too young to know all the world events at the time but I'm sure that they were discussing things but we didn't quite understand it, you know?

RP: Tell me a little bit about how your life changed after that day, Pearl Harbor day, what did you become aware of? You mentioned that you became kind of aware, that you were different, you were Japanese ancestry, you felt, how did you feel?

TM: Well, kind of ashamed that my heritage, you know, that people would do such a thing to America, you know.

AF: We went to school and let's see, this happened in December, and I really wasn't aware of any prejudice, you know, the same friends, maybe there were like me, they weren't quite up on history and what was happening. The bus driver was, she was very, you know, she gave us a hug and like she understood what we were going through but we just thought it was nothing.

TM: Well, my friends all said, I mean, not thinking that I was Japanese, they says, those darn Japs, you know, I mean, and they... as I'm part of them. But of course I was taken aback but they didn't think that I was Japanese.

RP: So your fellow students as well as most of your Caucasian neighbors were very sympathetic?

TM: Right, exactly. I think it would have been different if there were more Japanese around.

RP: Outwardly you didn't pose a great threat to that community. Did you recall any evidences of any discriminatory signs or "no Japs wanted here" at a store or were you able to go to places that you normally had gone?

TM: Well, we were more cautious but nothing. I would say we were just more cautious.

AF: I think after we went to Eastern Oregon there was probably more prejudice there.

RP: Did you have any thoughts or ideas about... many, many kids express the uncertainty about the future or did you basically went along as you had in going on before? Any thought whatsoever that you, that this catastrophic event called removal, relocation, whatever would happen to you?

TM: We knew our lives were going to change but not, didn't know what direction.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

RP: And so when you did learn that the government had created an exclusion policy for Japanese Americans on the West Coast, do you have any remembrances of your emotions during that time?

TM: Well, as I recall, it was a time that I thought well, we have to move, I know my mother and dad, my mother was in tears, you know, she was very upset thinking that we'd have to leave and become uprooted, but in my mind I thought well, this is going to be kind of an adventure, we never moved in my life. My friends all said well, they're moving and I thought gee, that must be fun living in another place, I mean, you know. And so I thought, well, this is going to be an adventure.

AF: Well our folks were young, I mean, you know, when you think back, I mean, they were like, you know, mid-life when all this happened so can imagine with such a big family and so it was probably a big burden.

TM: Well, it was but I know Mom just cried, she just didn't know what to pack and what to take, you know, she was very upset.

RP: Aya, you expressed a statement about the emotion of excitement. Again like Taka mentioned about that you never moved before. It was almost exciting to what else might be in store for you in that situation. And apparently there had to be some concern about what was going to happen the farm?

TM: Oh, definitely, well, see that was more of our brothers' concern than ours and so they had... we had good neighbors.

RP: Who did take over the farm?

TM: Well, they rented the farm out and had good neighbors to oversee.

RP: So they continued farming?

TM: Right.

RP: Do you remember ever seeing any of the money? Sort of arrangement was made to split the profits.

TM: Right.

RP: And so that helped support your family at the time that you were out. And we talked about the items that were stored. How about... this was always such a real difficulty to sort of boil your life down into one suitcase.

TM: You mean into the camp?

RP: Right, what do you take and what do you leave?

TM: I know. That was more than a shock, you know, to have to do.

AF: We could only carry this one suitcase and I think I wrote in there that one day we went to, I don't know whether you went too, but I remember going to JC Penney's. JC Penney's and these big black suitcases that were like cardboard, you know, not metal and with white paint we wrote our initials on the edge and I think we packed fun things rather than essentials.

RP: What kind of fun things?

AF: Probably games and stuff, you know, and probably our party clothes because we thought they were nice, you know, rather than the essentials. But I know Mom had a big duffle bag, she sewed this duffle bag and just stuffed everything in it. And I kind of remember that the only thing left on the table when we left was an alarm clock, a Big Ben alarm clock and I don't know why that sticks to my mind but...

RP: Was it kind of a ritual with your mom that the house be really nice and clean before you left?

AF: I think so.

TM: I don't recall that but probably.

RP: I've heard stories of Issei women that just immaculately scrub the house even if nobody was going to be living in there just to leave it that way. A couple of other situations changed after Pearl Harbor too when restrictions were placed on again being Japanese American being singled out for specific restrictions, a curfew being one of them. Also the travel restriction, now you were still, both of you were going to high school at that time. Did that have any personal impact on your lives so you couldn't attend certain events because of this?

TM: I don't think so because this curfew, well, it was right after the war when the curfew was placed, was in place.

AF: I don't know when that order came that you couldn't travel more than five miles but then it could've been only a couple months really that it would impact us. I don't think that we would have traveled.

RP: How about your father traveling into Portland with his produce?

TM: I don't think there was... and if there were he probably had connections to have his needs met.

RP: You mentioned that your mother had a pretty significant outpouring of emotion about the thought of leaving the farm. How about your father, I mean, you know, we always hear about the stoic Issei guy, the dad. Did your dad fit that description too or did he... did you sense anything from him?

TM: Well, you know, we did have his suitcase packed because he may be, you know, because we heard about all these Japanese, prominent Japanese in Portland being deported right away. But because Dad was kind of community leader we thought he would be but he didn't so we were pretty --

AF: I don't think anybody came to the house to question him.

RP: No FBI visits?

AF: I don't recall.

TM: I don't recall anybody, yes, so we were pretty pleased. But we did have his suitcase packed.

RP: How about some of the panic and fear that spread through Japanese American families and you just expressed it about, god, our dad might be picked up, pack a suitcase. There was also the concern that any item with a connection with Japan, whether it was a picture of the emperor or a Japanese doll or something might land you in a more difficult situation.

TM: Well, I do remember that I think we had a lot of Japanese records, the phonograph records and I think we said, "Oh, we got to bury those." And I don't know if we buried 'em or not.

AF: No, I think they went down through the outhouse toilet. You know, I think that's where they were dropped.

TM: Yes, we kind of scurried and checked out the house to see if there's any, you know.

RP: Any damning evidence.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

RP: Do you recall where... after you had packed up your suitcases, where did you go to assemble on the day that you went?

TM: We went to Forest Grove which is further west of Portland, Hillsboro. I don't know how we got there, do you know?

AF: Yes, it was a --

TM: No, I mean who took us?

AF: A neighbor.

TM: Oh, then we boarded a bus, a school bus.

AF: No, it wasn't a school bus, it was Greyhound.

TM: Oh, was it a Greyhound?

AF: A Greyhound and we met at the Forest Grove bus depot and we all got on and was bused to the exposition center, you know.

RP: Which was at that time --

TM: The livestock.

RP: The livestock.

AF: Right, right and we'd been there before because when we were going to grade school one of the activities that we were given was a rodeo.

TM: Well, it was a field trip.

AF: That was a big day for us so we went to the rodeo and you saw the cowboys and you know, the bull fighting and stuff like that so we knew what the place looked like.

RP: You never thought you'd be staying there. So what was that like? Just to back up a little bit, I was just curious to know, what was your last day at school like?

TM: Oh gosh, I can't remember.

AF: I can't either, I think it was just an ordinary day. I can't remember.

RP: Did anybody come up to you --

TM: No, because I don't think they're aware of when we were going to leave.

RP: And you didn't make it very obvious to them.

TM: But I do know a couple of my teachers, I know one of my teachers, she gave me a bottle of cologne, you know, I thought, oh that was so sweet of her. But it seems to me like when we were leaving there were lots of, you know, people we knew and we were waiting and I don't know if it was in Forest Grove or in Hillsboro.

AF: I don't remember that. I mean, like I said, it was an adventure for us.

RP: But you said people that you knew, Caucasians?

TM: Right, Caucasians.

RP: Had come to see you off?

TM: Yes, but we just waved at 'em and smiled, we're going on a trip. [Laughs] You know, it was nothing.

RP: Was there any evidence of army soldiers at the assembly point?

TM: Oh, yes, all over the assembly center, you know.

RP: How about on the bus, were there soldiers on the bus?

TM: There could have been but I don't remember.

RP: And so it wasn't very long a trip from Forest Grove?

AF: Well, it might have been from Forest Grove through Hillsboro to Portland, it might have taken an hour.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

RP: This is tape two of a continuing interview with Taka and Aya, and we were discussing your arrival at the Portland Assembly Center. And Taka, what was your first impression when you saw that you'd actually be living where you had taken a field trip?

TM: Well, I was aghast because of the numbers of people and having to find our quarters to live in and orders were just saying do this, you know, you got to get your... giving us directions of what each of us should do. It was just overwhelming.

RP: How about you, Aya?

AF: Well, it was about the same, we were helped off the bus by the sentries I remember and, I mean, they were in uniform with the... I can't remember whether they had a rifle or not but that's probably the first time I've ever seen an army uniform. And when we were ushered to where we were to stay, I remember this canvas door and there was nothing on top and I just remember just looking around and thought you know, didn't think much about is this where we're going to live. But like I said, it was mass confusion for me, yes.

RP: Now, Taka, you were three years older than your younger sister, were you aware of the fact that you were an American citizen, did you have any sense --

TM: Those thoughts didn't occur to me, I just, at that time I just knew we had to be there and we were given orders to get settled here, this is going to be your place to live for a while and so it was a very overwhelming knowing how to do it.

RP: That was the most immediate concern, how do we?

TM: How do we do it and our parents, they were, I mean, from living in a spacious farm and home.

RP: So how did you do it for three weeks?

TM: Well, I think we were... it was easier for us because right away they had... it was pretty well organized, the people that were there, they had people that were doing mess hall duties and they had started school and so these announcements came over the loudspeaker all the time. I mean, you know, telling us where all the activities were taking place and all that.

AF: I think we were probably one of the last groups to go into camp. I don't know when the first groups went but they had already established leaders and probably people that had to welcome us and told us where to go. They were the camp leaders I guess, as far as the sentries, I mean, they just kind of ushered us in and that was it.

TM: And we were surrounded on the outside they were surrounded by sentries anyway.

RP: Can you describe the assembly center to us, how it was laid out? Or where were you in the camp?

TM: Well, how big was each, I would call them cells, you know, it wasn't very big and like Aya says, it was canvas door and then we had to go to the latrines and showers and I mean we had to walk quite a ways to go to these facilities.

AF: They had, as far as meals were concerned, they had this bugler that announced when the first shift was eating and they sounded when it was their time to be over and I can't remember what the bugler's song, tune was but I've heard it and every time I hear it it reminds me of that meal time. And I remember eating Vienna sausage and I waitressed for one week I think and I still have the... my paycheck.

RP: Now you're coming from a very isolated situation living on a farm in a community that had very few Japanese Americans and suddenly you're thrust into a camp with thousands.

TM: Yes, right.

RP: How did you react to that?

TM: Well, as a teenager I thought well, this is not bad.

AF: But if you saw your friends then it was more fun, you know.

RP: Did you try to find your friends?

TM: Well, right, I knew a few before but not ....

RP: Well, now they basically hastily put this camp together, you know, you're right on the dirt where there had been manure and animals and that type of thing. I heard stories about outbreaks of flies?

TM: The stench.

AF: The whitewashed walls that had animal hair coming through, you know, I remember that.

RP: Were there any other sight, sounds, or smells that you'll forever remember about where --

AF: No, but you can hear the sound because they didn't have a roof, you know, I mean, it was all open stall so you could hear music, you know, and things like that coming through.

TM: Absolutely no, hardly any privacy, you know.

RP: What was the experience like for you going to the latrine which also was a very impersonal?

TM: Oh, yes, very much.

RP: A communal situation.

TM: Yes, it was just, you know, no privacy.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

RP: Just to back up a little bit before we move to the circumstances of how you ended up in Eastern Oregon, two of your brothers were drafted?

TM: Right.

RP: And when did that occur?

TM: Well, one was in January, was one?

AF: Something like that.

TM: And then one in March.

RP: So just shortly after Pearl Harbor?

TM: Right.

TP: Which is in upheaval and then two of your brothers were drafted. And where did they go? Do you know?

TM: They were in Fort Knox, Kentucky, and I remember Fort Knox, Kentucky, and Fort Thomas. And they were together too at one time and then they went to Camp Shelby and was shipped out of Camp Shelby.

RP: So they never went to a camp.

TM: Oh, no, they never went.

RP: So what was atmosphere like, do you recall when they left the farm?

TM: Well, it was very sobering.

AF: One of my brother's friends was drafted and he was killed as soon as he got over there and that really shook everybody up.

RP: Well, tell me why did your family volunteer for this opportunity to go to a farm labor camp in Eastern Oregon? Give me some background about it.

TM: Well, like I say there was a plea for farm help at the assembly center so our oldest brother George went to check it out and he saw the possibility of much more freedom and even though the camp layout was meager, it was far better than where we were. So the next... they had several groups going and so as soon as he came back to report that we just all decided to go.

RP: Did you offer your input on whether that would be a good idea?

TM: No, we had no input, you know, I mean...

AF: Our dad, I remember saying that was no place to raise girls. And like I said before, that it was getting to a place where the kids weren't eating with their parents and you know, and so we just stayed there for three weeks.

RP: You could kind of see the handwriting on the walls.

AF: Right.

TM: Right.

RP: Things are already starting to disintegrate and they were getting worse.

TM: The family structure, yes.

RP: Let's go for this.

AF: So anyhow I remember riding that train, it was at night and they had to pull the shades down so nobody could see us.

TM: Sentries walking through the train.

AF: Yes.

RP: And so you arrived... the train took you to Nyssa?

TM: To the camp, there was a bus waiting for us and they took us to the tent camp.

RP: And what did you see when you got there?

TM: What did we --

RP: What did you see when you got to that --

TM: Oh, we just saw this camp with nothing but tents.

AF: It was just a wooden platform.

TM: Yes, wooden platform, pot belly stove in each one.

AF: No, we didn't have it in each one, I think it was just the cooking, wasn't it?

TM: No, I thought we had a pot belly stove because we cooked our own meals.

AF: We had just one tent where we, it was just for eating and cooking but like I said it's... at night you just had this one light bulb and of course you know, it just shadows out so you can just see anything that's happening in there.

TM: It was so, the climate is so different from the northwest. It was dry and I mean it was hot and so we could lift the tent flaps up to air out and get dust in there.

RP: I was going to mention, ask you about dust storms, the wind blows a lot in the desert.

TM: Amazingly we got accustomed to it.

RP: And what did you have for sleeping facilities, were they cots?

TM: Yes, cots.

AF: Yes, that folded up, they could fold it up but it was just canvas cots.

RP: A mattress?

AF: No, I don't think we had mattresses, did we? But it was like canvas I remember it was canvas with legs, wooden legs.

RP: And did the whole family reside in one tent?

TM: Oh, well, no. We lived... see my brother, George and his wife, they had a camp, a tent. And then where did mom and dad?

AF: Mom and dad and I think maybe the two younger sisters stayed in one tent and then the three of us older ones had a tent and then one tent for cooking. So among our family we had four.

RP: Four tents? So you had your own cooking tent?

AF: Yes, cooking and a table in there for eating.

RP: What type of stove did you have and what did it run on? Was it a wood stove?

AF: No, no, it was coal, wasn't it coal?

TM: Yes, I think it was coal.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

RP: So what... in the first few days you got there, what chores or responsibilities did you have? Did you do any of the cooking or did you --

TM: Our sister-in-law did the cooking, huh?

AF: Yes.

TM: 'Cause we all... see, whatever groceries we needed there was a camp director and I think they were the ones that took orders, you know, our grocery orders and things. Because we had no way of going, we had no transportation. But then the farmers would come and there would be crew bosses and so the crew bosses would say, "Well, this farmer needs so many workers," and so we would kind of go where our friends would go and go with them. So in that way it made it, you know, so all these farmers lined up and like the crew bosses would assign, say this farm needs so many workers and this farm next. Isn't that how it went?

AF: Well, I was too young to go with other kids, I mean, so I had to go with Mom and that was a bunch of old ladies. And I was probably the only young one but by then I was a sophomore in high school age.

TM: See Dorothy and Rose never did --

AF: They never had to work so my sister-in-law took care of them back at the tent.

RP: You go to Portland in May and then by June you're out in the camp, in the labor camp, so you're there during the summer, there's no school. Was there any type of security, fences or sentries or anything?

TM: No.

AF: No, but I'm sure that there were strict rules. I remember going to movies, just the camp people could go to the movies certain hour.

RP: Movies where?

TM: At the theater.

AF: At the theater.

TM: In Ontario.

AF: And I remember midnight movies, it started at midnight. And came home at two, three o'clock in the morning, you know, I remember that very clearly.

RP: Obviously, no curfew.

TM: No, because, see, it was not the, you know, zone one and zone two, we were in zone three I think where there was given more freedom.

RP: Tell me a little bit more about your experiences going out to these farms and how you were treated, what the work was like, what you got paid if you recall.

TM: I think that our crew bosses got the pay, you know, and then doled it out you. But we would go out in open trucks and stand for miles and going with the farm, you know, at that time when I think about it at times, my gosh we rode miles in an open truck, going to the farm and either hoeing beets or hard labor, believe me. [Laughs] But with your friends it's not as hard, you know what I mean?

AF: But they closed the schools in October for the potato harvest, I mean, they close the school for at least two weeks so everybody harvested the potatoes. And to me that was the hardest job in the world.

TM: Oh, gosh you talk about --

AF: You put this big belt on and hook sacks on the back, you know, like twenty sacks and you get paid by the sacks. And these sacks were like sixty pounds of potatoes and you put it like this and you pull up the sack and you stand it. So the truck can come by and pick it up. I can't imagine we did that.

TM: We worked hard.

RP: What did you have in terms of bathrooms? Was it sort of a communal bathroom situation in the camp too?

AF: Yes.

TM: Yes, but not as... there was I think... was it flush toilets in --

AF: No, at the tent there was two latrines right out... I mean, you could smell the chemical that they used. Then we had a big outdoor covered shower but the men had to go in at one time and the women another time and they were scheduled. But I remember just pulling this string, you know, on this platform thing that, you know, with slats and you pulled this string.

TM: To get the water?

AF: To get the water. But you had to hold onto the string to keep the water going.

RP: Just to clean yourself with --

AF: Yes.

RP: Boy, some interesting challenges.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

RP: So your family amongst hundreds of other Japanese Americans really had a very unique situation that you have sort of this interesting exemption from the camp experience.

TM: Right.

RP: Not very many other people --

TM: Not in like the relocation camps.

RP: Right.

TM: It's relocation but not --

RP: People were sent to the relocation camps and then they were allowed to leave later on. But you went directly from the assembly center and to a much... it seemed like a much greater degree of freedom. And so you had these expectations when you were in the assembly center, how did they match, did the experience you had in the tent camp early on match your expectations for freedom? Life always presents its interesting challenges wherever you are.

TM: Right, right well we, yes, not knowing what to expect it was --

AF: But I think we probably met our lifelong friends at that period.

TM: Yes.

AF: Because the friends we met in those years have become one of our best friends.

RP: And can you describe to me, was there a sense of a community within this tent camp?

TM: There was.

RP: Organized events.

TM Yes, they had social... it was more after we moved into the barracks that they had more of a social activities and at that time we had a little... I wrote in there that this little missionary lady that made... she wanted to make sure that we were getting good --

AF: Religious training.

TM: Well, religious as well as social, issues. She tried to see that we... welfare of the people.

RP: You were treated well.

TM: Right, right.

RP: So she was as you might call it these days, an advocate for --

TM: Right, see, she had just returned, Caucasian lady, just returned from Japan and as a missionary and so she spoke Japanese. And she was not a very elderly woman but she was gray haired and just a real loving lady that just took in... she wanted to have all the ladies meet whether they were Buddhist or whatever and she would teach them crafts. And so there wasn't anyone there that we knew that would have... gather them for the Buddhist, you know, faith. But she through these efforts she got us interested in Christianity and she started having church services and we didn't know a thing about Christianity because we didn't have that upbringing. But through her, you know, we all became Christians. She has really been my important lady in our lives.

RP: What was her name?

TM: Azalea Peet.

RP: And you mentioned that she really helped out the Isseis?

TM: Right.

RP: Language issues as well as... anybody else that kind of stands out?

TM: Well, there were, you know, the Quakers were such advocates for the Japanese but I don't remember any particular, maybe other people in the camp had ties with the Quaker group but we had another minister from Idaho that helped me get into the college of Idaho because I just finished and I enrolled in the college of Idaho but I can't remember what his name was.

AF: You mean Reverend Schaffer?

TM: Yes, Reverend Schaffer, yes. So and there were other, he helped us but I don't know who else helped the lot of my friends that went on to college.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

RP: How far was the camp from Nyssa?

AF: About twelve miles.

TM: Yes, something like that.

RP: So in those first months that you were there you spent time in the camp or the town, you said you went, would go to the movies on occasion. What was the response, the local response of the Caucasian community in Nyssa to this camp?

TM: Well, there were a lot of discrimination.

AF: Yes, I think I remember one instance, one of my friends... and then her brother was killed and after that it was, it was, I mean, she just really ignored me you know. But you could tell she was very upset. It was a brother that I think just got out of high school and... but the teachers were pretty nice, you know, they were more tolerant. We didn't develop a lot of Caucasian friends because there was a quite a group of Japanese going to this same school. So we kind of had lunch together and that kind of stuff, we probably should have mixed more but it was more comfortable.

RP: Were there other forms that the discrimination took? Not being served at certain --

TM: No, I don't know, I don't recall but I've heard stories when going into this town you mean? I think there was, but we didn't experience it.

AF: Well, you know, like Sets was saying that her brother was in the army and he was eventually killed but she went in to get her hair done and she was told, "We don't serve Japs here," and she really put up a fight.

RP: This was in Nyssa?

AF: This was in Ontario which is right next to Nyssa.

RP: Is Ontario the larger of the two communities?

AF: Ontario is.

TM: Oh, yes, Nyssa is just a small town but Ontario is a --

AF: There was a lot of Japanese settled there and they were instrumental in building the museum there. I don't know if you've ever heard of Treasure Valley Museum? They have a lot of artifacts, Japanese artifacts and stuff in there.

RP: Right and you brought up a good point, Aya, these original Japanese families had moved into that Ontario Nyssa area.

AF: This was before the war too.

RP: What type of contact did you have in... were they supportive?

TM: Very much.

AF: Very much.

RP: In what ways?

TM: Oh, they wanted to make us feel welcome and they would do anything for us because we were confined and they wanted, in fact, one family just didn't live very far from the camp and they opened their homes and they said, "Well, do you want to have a social event?" and they were just very... oh, yes, they were very cordial, yes.

RP: Was there a Buddhist church in that community?

TM: There was but there was a Buddhist church there but we didn't... I don't think anyone from camp attended, I mean, 'cause it was... during the tent camp it was still very chaotic and I think that was not in their agenda or something.

RP: There was a situation that developed where members of the tent camp tried to negotiate getting electricity to the tent camp. Are you familiar with that?

TM: You mean before we --

RP: Before you left to go to the CCC camp, there was protests or some nature to get electricity supplied to the tent camp. And just mentioned here that Japanese Americans were accustomed to better living conditions wanted the electricity, the sugar beet companies in the town of Nyssa arranged for the wiring.

TM: That I didn't know.

RP: Apparently some of the local people felt that was beyond what Japanese Americans were kind of pushy about, making demands and there was some resentment about that situation that developed. But you don't --

TM: No, we don't know the politics of that but I just know that we had to move out of tent camp at that time because it was getting cold. We couldn't withstand the weather if we continued to live there.

RP: Before we get into that, were there any Japanese Americans in the tent camp that worked at the sugar beet factory in Nyssa?

AF: I don't think so.

TM: I don't think so.

RP: It was strictly farm labor?

TM: Right, right, strictly farm labor.

RP: And that particular part of Oregon, Malheur County was the one that was suffering this emergency situation. They were able to impress upon the WRA and the President that this was an extraordinary situation and that's how things came to be. Do if you were paid by the, I believe it was the Amalgamated Sugar Company that sort of had wanted people to come out and work in that tent camp?

TM: Well, that probably is like I said --

AF: They probably did I'm sure that they had a lot to do with it because there weren't any able bodied men to do that.

TM: Like I say, we don't know the politics of that business end.

RP: How were you treated by the farmers where this land that you worked on?

TM: Not any different.

AF: I think it was just --

TM: I mean, hey, they wanted to get their crops taken care of and I think --

AF: I remember this is an incident that happened to my husband and he went out to a farm where they thinned sugar beets and they said that one row was like a mile long and you could only go up once, go up by mid-morning and then come back and your day was over. But they were getting paid very low wages and so they had a strike.

TM: Sit down strike.

AF: Sit down strike and they just sat down by the edge of the ditch until the farmer told them to get back to work but they said they were going to quit. And I guess they reconsidered and paid them a little more, yes, to get the job done.

RP: So there was a little bit of, yes.

AF: But they were young kids, eighteen, nineteen years old, that protested.

RP: Didn't want to be taken advantage of.

TM: Yes, taken advantage of.

RP: And there was no union you have to stand up for yourself.

AF: Well, they couldn't get the job done, I mean, they would suffer. I remember taking lunches and cold drinks and putting them in the running irrigation, running water to keep your beverages cold.

RP: Yes, how hot was it out there?

AF: It was hot, it's dry hot heat.

TM: It's not as... you don't feel the intenseness like you do on the West Coast because we have that moist heat. And so the dry heat, we got used to, accustomed to it even though it's hot, it's different.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

RP: So again fall is coming, it's getting cooler and so they moved you to this CCC camp at Adrian, and where was Adrian in respect to the tent camp?

AF: It was south of Nyssa about twelve miles.

RP: And can you describe the camp to us? Was it just long rows of barracks?

TM: There were barracks and the structure that we lived in housed... it had two stories so our family had the largest, I would say, apartment. And there were --

AF: And another family lived upstairs and then another family lived right, you went in the same door, the main door, and they had a private room. So it was three of us living in this big house or building.

RP: And the building had... was it equipped with bathroom facilities and kitchen?

AF: No, it was still outside.

RP: Was it a... sounds like it would be a significant improvement over the tent camp?

TM: Oh, yes, because at least we had more warmth.

AF: We still burned coal on the coal stove, they delivered the coal when you wanted it but they were in big chunks I remember and we had to break it apart to put it in the stove. I remember that. And to take a shower you had to walk a while to go to the shower.

RP: And was the whole tent camp removed to the Adrian camp?

TM: Yes, because I think they closed the tents.

RP: They just completely closed it down.

TM: Then they had a social, one barrack that was called a canteen and that's where they had the dances and the church services.

RP: So did the missionary, Azalea Peet, did she follow you over there?

TM: Yes.

RP: Did she continue to organize and make life a little more bearable for you?

AF: She had a, not a mobile home but what do you call it? You remember this kind of an old --

TM: Oh, Quonset.

AF: Quonset hut like type thing she lived in.

RP: And so who ran the CCC camp, was it the same people that ran the farm?

TM: Yes, I think so, yes, I think it was the farm security.

RP: And those were Caucasians I assume?

TM: Yes.

RP: And no evidence of any military police or security around the camp?

TM: No.

RP: How difficult was this part of your experience for your parents? Or was it?

TM: Well, I think it was... I think they were tolerating it. I mean, they weren't, I mean, it's just like this is what we have to do. I don't think they were... this is what's expected of us so that's, didn't want to make waves or anything. They're not that kind of people anyway.

RP: So during the wintertime there wasn't that much... was there still farm labor work to be done during the wintertime?

TM: Right.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

RP: What would you do during the wintertime?

TM: The first winter I enrolled at the college in midwinter in January so I went out to college and my sister Kate, she also went to College of Idaho too. And so we stayed in the dorm.

RP: Where was the College of Idaho?

TM: In Caldwell. And see, there was this other reverend that helped us so there was a group of us that went to College of Idaho and I don't know how we ever got there.

AF: You know, it's amazing when we think back all during this time, there was three of us that went to college during the war and to this day I can't imagine how they could have... our parents afforded it, my sister went all the way back to Minnesota and Taka went to... she graduated from Pacific University and I started Oregon State during the war. Right after the war, the war ended in August of '45 and I started in September of '45 from camp.

RP: Were there any scholarships or any type of financial aid involved?

TM: No.

AF: No, but it's amazing how we were able to go and I never questioned where the money came from but we were expected to go on to school.

RP: And did you at that particular time in your life have any specific career goals or aspirations of what you wanted to do with your life?

TM: I majored in sociology but because I thought well, I used to belong to the YWCA camps and so that was probably why I majored in that.

AF: I went on to a school of home economics and Oregon State at that time was one of the top home economics school and I became a food nutrition person worked in Portland here.

RP: So what was it like going to college?

TM: Well, you know, on that campus they had the ROTC and so there was just, it was very active college at that time in that way with the military. But there were quite a few Japanese that went there too. I wasn't a very good student but I....

RP: How did it feel or what was it like to be leaving your family and getting over there heading to college?

TM: Another adventure that... yes, it was, but part of growing up.

AF: Of course it was much more cheaper then but then it was big money for the parents you know, yes. I worked when I went to school in the kitchen doing dishes and things like that.

TM: Gosh I remember it was like sixty-nine dollars a semester for credit or something like that I think.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

RP: Aya, so you were in the CCC camp with the rest of the family and then shortly thereafter you made another move and settled on a farmer's land that arranged a sharecropping situation. Can you talk a little bit about that?

AF: Yes, we sharecropped with a family called the Fishers I think. And there was another Japanese family that also sharecropped I think with them, the Kidos. And we lived next door to each other and they raised onions and sugar beets and we went out to work on their farm. And I don't know what the money end of it was but I remember one day we went out and there was a truck that came in, the farmer brought in a truck, and there was all these German POWs on there to help harvest the crops. And I thought, oh my gosh, isn't that ironic, they were all sitting on this big open truck and I'm sure that there was a guard there, but they were all young and blond, good looking men, young men. We found out they were POWs. Isn't that amazing?

TM: They were eating watermelons down to the, almost to the skin. I remember they were treated to the watermelon.

AF: Let's see, I can't remember the year that we went to sharecropping but we must have been there a good...

TM: I don't know I was at school but then we came home.

AF: ...good year. But we lived in this house that I remember this bed that we had, it was just made out of slats and with a mattress thrown on it and there was nothing but bedbugs on that I remember. And my dad used to pour kerosene into those slats to kill those bedbugs.

TM: Couldn't imagine bedbugs.

RP: This farm that you stayed at, was it outside of Ontario?

AF: It was between Ontario and Nyssa, it was called Cairo Junction was the name of the little area.

RP: As far as you know, was that, your situation, other people's situations as well where other families would sort of hire out to private farmers in the area? Were there other Japanese families that did that?

AF: Yes, because when we start talking about remember back when, we said, you mean you were out there then, you know, people came from camp, from the relocation camps and helped harvest and then they went back. That's how they... 'cause we were so surprised that some of our friends were in Ontario and harvested peaches and things like that. And it's kind of astonishing that we never met there. But later on you know... yes. It was quite an experience and then when we came back home in, let's see, 1945.

TM: '45.

AF: I remember coming home for Thanksgiving, that was my first time back and I couldn't remember getting back to the house, it's been three years you know, things had changed. And my boyfriend at the time, who's my husband now, picked me up at the Greyhound depot and brought me home and we came down this Canyon Road which is just a two lane highway and we passed the marker and we went into the city of Hillsboro and we didn't live that far in yet but we backtracked and finally found the house. It was Thanksgiving.

RP: Well, that's appropriate.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

RP: Yes, that was another very positive experience for you during this time. You met your husband in the, was it the tent camp when you first met him?

AF: Yes.

RP: Tell us a little bit about him.

AF: Well, I met him in camp, at the tent camp.

RP: How did you guys meet?

AF: Well, social, social things. And then we just went together and then he went into the army. He was only in there like a year, just a little over a year, he never went overseas. And I went on to college and I know my mother said, "You can't get married until you learn how to drive and graduate from college." I think she told me to learn how to drive so after I got married I could come home. [Laughs] Anyhow, so after I graduated from college I got married.

RP: There was another interesting community around the Ontario Nyssa area. There was a group of Basques? Did you have any contact with them at all?

AF: Right, yes, they raised sheep and they run their cattle through town, I mean, everything comes to a standstill. And it's really something in that all the dust that the animals create. Do you remember them going through?

TM: No, I don't.

AF: Oh yes, that's a big Basque population out that way and they herd their sheep through the town and no way can you get around 'em until they pass through, yes.

RP: So your family, did your two brothers who were in the military, you mentioned they used to come back to the farm on furlough to check on things.

TM: Yes, they did, right.

RP: Did they ever have a chance to visit you while you were at the camps?

TM: Yes.

RP: Which one did they --

TM: They never came to the tent but they came to Adrian, you know.

RP: And so did they feel about seeing you out there?

TM: Well, I'm sure they felt, we never really asked them.

AF: Well, my brother, Art wrote to the Hillsboro paper (saying), "I'm serving in the army and my parents and family are in this camp, how could this be?" I mean, it was kind of a letter that he just was so frustrated and I remember cutting it out and saving it and I gave it to my brother and he can't remember even mailing that letter but that's how he felt and he wrote it, he wrote to the editor.

RP: This is during the war?

AF: Yes.

TM: Yes.

AF: And I think he sent pictures, I mean, a lot of things were censored you know, the letters he sent home, but on the pictures that he took he would write on the back like this is the name of this person but it really told us where he was, kind of you, know. Do you remember that?

TM: Yes, he wrote --

AF: He wrote it in English but he wrote like the person in this picture is, this is his name but that's wasn't what it was. He kind of told us where he was in France.

TM: Well, he wrote in his very elementary Japanese.

RP: And the fact that they were serving in the military, for other folks who were in the War Relocation Centers, some of their parents got, shall we say, there was bitterness, why are your sons serving while we're in this camp, that type of thing. But of course it was also a source of pride too for the parents to know that their sons were serving their country. Being where you were, you weren't exposed to any type of a "loyalty questionnaire" which really divided those camps.

TM: Yes, I know in the relocation centers there were a lot of disloyal groups.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

RP: So later on you ran into Japanese Americans who had been in these camps sometimes called concentration camps. How do you, in hearing what their experiences were and you sharing your experiences, how does that put your experience in context to what they had to go through?

TM: Well, there's a lot of similarities, yes, lots of similarities. You mean from the evacuation camps or our camp? What they went through in evacuation, you mean? Well, ours, there isn't any, that much of a similarity because they were in large groups and had to go to the mess halls and all that. But we had our own family unit.

RP: And most importantly, you preserved that.

TM: Right, right, yes.

RP: You didn't see the disintegration even though a couple of sisters went to college.

TM: Yes, that's right.

RP: Your brothers were serving, still had to serve the corps. You didn't see the you know, the same type of thing happening in the camps you were at? I wanted to ask you about how you feel your experience shaped the rest of your life.

TM: Well, it made us realize the injustice that was inflicted on us.

AF: Well, I think I've become more tolerant of other races and other people so when I hear of the Muslims and the Latinos getting persecuted I just really feel for them, you know. When the Muslims started coming over here and they were being treated so badly, I thought, oh my gosh, you know, they're going through what we just did. But I'm sure I feel much more tolerant of people.

RP: Do you have any thoughts about that, Taka?

TM: Well, I feel the same way. It just really makes you, you know, appreciate your freedom.

AF: And I think our kids are very interested in this, our generation, I mean, you've probably heard this before that we never speak about these things until just lately and now our kids are just beginning to find out what's been happening. So every time they see something in the books or on TV they email it to me thinking that it's something of interest. And I've kept lots of things on the war and the relocation.

RP: So what prompted you to recently share your stories with your children?

AF: Well, I think when you get together with seniors and you talk about what happened during the war, it becomes something you kind of want to remember and pass on to your kids.

TM: Legacy.

AF: So I think this is a real good thing, what you're doing.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

RP: This is tape three of a continuing interview with Taka and Aya about their experiences during World War II and we were just getting into the issue of resettlement in Hillsboro and how were you received, what were your feelings were about returning to actually your home?

TM: Well, frankly I don't recall any discrimination but I think I've heard from my brothers and dad that they were faced with some discrimination. But I don't think it was as bad in Hillsboro because there were so few of us Japanese originally anyway. So as far as I know I don't think they had --

AF: I don't think as much as like you might have heard from Hood River. Have you heard of Hood River? And Gresham was another place that, my husband was from Gresham and they had a lot of incidents that happened. But like she said in Hillsboro I think our parents were law-abiding, not rabble rousers, so they didn't run into any trouble, yes, we were fortunate that way.

RP: Now did the rest of your family also return? When did the two brothers return from the war?

TM: Gosh, I don't remember when they returned.

AF: When we returned to Hillsboro?

TM: No, when Arthur and Ike returned, I don't remember when they were discharged.

AF: Art was in the "Lost Battalion," you might have heard of that, and he was injured and I asked my brother Ike, "Were you there?" And he says he was in a different tanks or something so he was farther back so he was never in that rifle, you know, like my brother Art was. But they met several times together in France. But it must have been very hard for our parents to have two sons overseas. But we weren't the only families with... other families had the same situation. And remember when they had the gold stars and the blue stars, yes.

RP: Did you have that?

AF: I remember having the blue stars you hung in the window.

RP: Where did you have those? At the labor camp or the CCC camp?

TM: Yes, I think we did.

AF: I think we did.

RP: So when you came back to the farm, what condition was it in? Was it, had it been kept pretty well by the neighbor?

TM: Well, see I didn't come back from Idaho until January and they were already settled. So I think it was okay, I mean, you know. They didn't say anything that was --

AF: I remember this missionary came when she made a visit to the West Coast, she went up to the house to check on it. And she said everything was in good order.

RP: Was that Miss Peet?

AF: Yes, Miss Peet.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

RP: And then just give us maybe a brief sketch of what you did with the rest of your life, Taka.

TM: Well, I finished college and then I went to work for the YWCA for a short while then I worked for the Japanese American Citizens Leagues office in Portland. And then I got married. My husband owned a small grocery store with his dad. I helped him for about five years when he had to have major stomach surgery and he had to quit. I had one daughter shortly after we got married and then I went to work for... when my husband had to have his stomach surgery and then we had to sell the store, I worked for the Portland Public Schools. And then after working the school district, that was from '55 to '65, about ten years. (In 1954) I had another daughter who (died of) bone cancer (at age ten). I went back to school and got (my) teaching credentials and I went on to teaching for fifteen years. And then my husband passed away (in 1976) while I was teaching. He died at fifty-seven.

RP: Aya, how about you?

AF: Let's see, after we got... see, I got married in 1950 and my husband, he was one of six boys in his family and they were all into farming and so right after we got married in the fall I started to work at a hospital. I helped at the farm a little bit but I thought to myself, gosh, I went to school for four years and I didn't want to go back to farming, so I applied at the Portland hospital and I worked there for a couple of years after my son was born. And then after my daughter was born, I worked for a little bit longer and then I stayed home to take care of the kids but in the meantime I had to work on the farm too. And then later on about ten years later after that, our last daughter was born and I thought, I mean, I needed something to do after she went to school so I started to work at another hospital and I worked there until I retired.

TM: She was a dietitian.

AF: And then I retired in '92 and then just went into all the senior activities.

RP: Were you active in the Japanese American community in Portland?

AF: Yes.

TM: Oh, we're more active in our church.

RP: Is that the Methodist?

TM: Yes.

RP: Aren't you celebrating your 100th anniversary or something like that?

TM: What?

RP: The 100th anniversary of the Methodist church?

TM: Yes, it's over a hundred.

AF: Was it more than a hundred, I don't know,

TM: Yes, it's about a 110 now. Yes, it's one of the oldest.

RP: So how did both of you feel about the efforts that created the redress and reparation?

TM: Well, that was certainly, well, we certainly thanked the people that worked on it, you know. It was a long overdue and it wasn't half as much as what we actually did... very appreciative of it.

AF: It was the parents that should have gotten it but they were gone by then.

TM: That's right. It was the parents that should have gotten it.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

RP: Now, have you ever returned to the site of some of these experiences that you had around Nyssa and Ontario?

TM: We have, yes.

AF: The camps are no longer there but we go back to visit our friends because that's where one of our best friends were there from, yes. And I feel to me that's a second, you know, the best memories I have growing up.

RP: Have you been to a pilgrimage at one of the other camps?

TM: Like --

RP: Minidoka?

TM: I've been to Minidoka, I've gone on a pilgrimage but I've also been there while, you know, during the war.

RP: So if your family hadn't gone out and volunteered to this sort of unique situation in Eastern Oregon, you would have ended up at Minidoka.

TM: Right, right, that's right, that's true.

AF: I had no desire to even visit, yes.

TM: Well, I thought... I had the opportunity to go visit and I thought well, it would be interesting to see what it was like.

RP: And as far as you know, there's never been any reunion of the tent city?

TM: No, no, we've never had a reunion.

RP: Roughly the numbers I've seen are somewhere around 400 Japanese Americans were sent there. I guess a final question. Based on your experiences during the wartime being removed and these upheavals and confusions going on in your life, do you have any advice or insights for young people today that you'd like to share with them?

TM: Well, I'd say that it's important to preserve your, you know, your legacy. And believe in what is always true in your heart.

AF: And be tolerant of other races and just remember what happened so it won't ever happen again.

RP: Kind of following up on that question, both of you were in your teenage years when this happened.

TM: Yes.

RP: And like you said, Taka, you were so kind of confused about what we needed to do we're at the assembly center we didn't really have to think about the injustice of it all.

TM: Right.

RP: But now you've kind of had years to reflect on it.

TM: Yes, time to think about it, right.

RP: So how would you look at it today, would you look at it differently? How does it look to you sixty-eight years later?

TM: Well, whether justice was served then... well, I think that, well, I'm kind of, I knew that what I know now that I didn't then is that it was the wrong thing, definitely.

AF: We probably weren't up on a lot of things. Because of the language barrier too our folks probably didn't talk about those kind of things.

TM: They were not the kind to make waves on any incidences that would...

RP: Is there any other stories or reminisces you'd like to share before we conclude our interview, something that we haven't touched on?

TM: I don't have any.

AF: But I'm thoroughly interested in this kind of history and I hope my kids can take from it and pass it on to their own kids.

RP: Well, on behalf of Mark and myself and the National Park Service, I want to thank you both so very much for your time to share your precious stories.

AF: You're welcome.

TM: Thank you very much.

AF: Thank you.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.