<Begin Segment 11>

TI: When your classmate, there was that incident where the planes flew in formation, and your classmate pointed to you and said, "What do you think of that?" I mean, you were kind of an airplane buff, I mean, you knew planes and what they looked like, probably knew American planes, too. So when your classmate said that, do you recall what you thought? Because you saw the Japanese planes, but what were you thinking when he said that?

IS: I don't know if I felt at that time, but I mentioned about it. If I was in the United States, I was not 100 percent American. And when something like comparing would come up, I would be a foreigner. I'm not 100 percent American like Leonard in my book. I guess I felt like an outsider in Japan, or that I should try harder to be more like a Japanese. And I think I, maybe that was the most thing that came up more often, like I'm not treated like a Japanese, what can I do? I should try harder to be more... and I think in a way, maybe not even realized that I was feeling that way. I think I did finally act that way, too. Because I think I mentioned it, but let me explain this. When I was there, the teacher got a draft notice. Of course, he wasn't accepted, so it turned out okay. But I still remember his other teacher came to tell him, "Good luck." But what I heard one teacher say was, "Gee, I don't know how, if I should congratulate you or tell you, 'Gee, too bad you got this notice.'" That's the way he really felt. But I thought to myself, "Wow, what does he mean? It's nothing but good opportunity to serve your country. Why can't he see that there's no two ways about it?" I remember questioning that to myself when I heard that.

So here's one incident. When we were going, when I was going to Japan in 1939, there was a lot of Niseis. But there was one guy who was about a year older than me who was from Japan, came to United States, he went to high school or something, and he was going back. And I used to, at that time, I remember feeling when I saw him on the boat together with other Niseis, I said, "God, in some ways, that guy is more American than us." Now, I think the opposite happened to me. When I went to Japan, being loyal to your country was always pounded into you. And I think I heard that more loudly and clearly than somebody who grew up with that from childhood.

TI: That's really interesting. So it was almost like when you went to Japan, you worked harder at being Japanese and hearing these things, and in the same way, when this Japanese came to the United States, he really worked hard to be American and that's really...

IS: Yeah. And, you know, you're in high school, but gee, there's this freedom. I mean, it's okay for you to date, go see a movie, and he really went to the other side and became more like that than what was ordinary, I think. And so when I, you know, like I don't know if I should talk about the military part, but when we were told about one of our thing was to carry a bomb and dive under the place, I didn't question that.

TI: Interesting.

IS: But I don't think... well, if you were a older person, or if I was older, maybe if I was married and had a family, maybe I would have had some second thoughts. But boy, I think I took that, I mean, there was no two ways.

TI: That's interesting. Any questions?

SF: I was just struck by the similarity maybe that you could apply that same thinking to the, like the 442 and believing that they were so, great soldiers for America in a way, right? Because they had to kind of be, prove...

TI: But would you say that it's because they're American or Japanese?

SF: Because they were Japanese and would have to prove, they were super-sensitive about their American-ness, so they had to... I'm sorry, sensitive about their Japanese-ness, so they had to prove their American-ness.

IS: Oh, I never thought of that, but I can hear you.

TI: Interesting.

IS: Well, one thing, I guess somewhere I thought everybody felt that way, too, I think, I thought. And when I look back now, I don't... that every Japanese soldier was willing to become a suicide bomber that they use today, or kamikaze pilot. But now, I don't think it was like that.

TI: So back then you thought everyone would have, but now you think that probably wasn't the case?

IS: Yes.

TI: Interesting.

IS: So I didn't think I was an exception. All my buddies had the same feelings as the way I felt.

TI: It may be something where I have to get a better understanding, or just ask, is, so when you went to Japan when you were fifteen and then entered the military, at that point, you thought you were always gonna be Japanese or stay in Japan.

IS: Right.

TI: There wasn't this thought -- as I see you and talk with you, I think of you in San Jose, in America for a long time. But back then, you thought Japan was your home, and that's what, and your country, and that's where you were gonna stay.

IS: Yes.

TI: So it is kind of a shift for me to be in that situation. So you were just trying to embrace everything Japanese to get you there as quickly as possible in terms of this being your home.

IS: Yes.

TI: Okay, good.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.