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TI: And other than Boy Scouts, any other, sort of, organized activities with the Japanese American community?

RK: That was the main thing, I mean, but being involved with that particular troop, there was, I didn't participate with the basketball, but there was baseball, we also had what was called the drum and bugle corps, camping, so with all of that activity, it was pretty, it was a lot of activity, 'cause there was camping trips and meetings every Friday night.

Tom Izu: Richard, so how was the interaction with the other kids in the troop? They were all Japanese Americans?

RK: Right. It was... at that time, I would say, ninety percent of the kids were Japanese Americans, and there were a few kids that might have been not. But...

Tom Izu: So how did that feel? If you were, was that a big change, interacting with all these Japanese Americans?

RK: Yeah, I mean, it was, the thing that was interesting to me is that as a kid, my father had, his name had been "Kanda." Then when I went into the Japanese American troop, the name changed to "Konda." I mean, that's what it was at that time. And so as a kid, I was always Richard Kanda, and when I would join the troop, then, you know, I guess the quote/unquote "correct' pronunciation kind of came out as "Konda." And it was a different thing for me, 'cause, again, other than all my relatives, as a kid, I had, well, the other part of my youth is that for church, we went to a local church, a Lutheran church. And so this Lutheran church was principally German, white, and I think there might have been one other Asian family there. So there was us and then one other -- we may have been at that time the only Asian family at that church. So it was kind of... I mean, that kind of was the reflection of the area of town that I grew up in.

TI: And going, thinking about the troop again, so when you came into this almost predominately Japanese American environment, how did, did you feel like an outsider coming in? Or did you feel right away as part of the group? I mean, how did you feel about that?

RK: I was a little bit of an outsider just because a lot of the families or people involved kind of either went to different churches together. I mean, there were, this was the troop that was, that met at the Konko church, although the membership of the troop was kind of mixed. There was one troop that was kind of affiliated with the Buddhist church, one troop that was affiliated with the Methodist church or the Christian church, and this other troop was kind of, had some Konko church members, both kind of a mishmash of other people whose families, for whatever reason, had joined this troop. And the reason we joined this troop is my father worked with some of the other scoutmasters or whatever, and they encouraged him to join that particular troop. So in a sense, I felt like a little bit of an outsider, and after a while, as kids do, you make friends, and pretty well accepted.

TI: And I guess I'm getting to the issue of identity and how you feel about race and identity. So conversely, when you think about the Lutheran church or your neighborhood, how did you feel about that? Did you feel like you were just, this was your neighborhood, your group, or did you feel like an outsider?

RK: A little bit, but I think, again, as a kid, you just, there's a bunch of other kids and you just play or whatever. So I don't know that it would occur to me in that way at that time.

TI: At some point, when you were like twelve, thirteen, was there a group that you felt closer to?

RK: Yeah, I guess because we had all these activities with this Boy Scout troop, it was like camping and baseball and drum and bugle corps. So became closer and closer with that group.

TI: Now, in terms of organizing, who were the organizers of Troop 58? Who really held it together and made it work?

RK: So it was kind of a mix. There were some Niseis, but there was a number of Kibeis that were involved as leaders, either coaches on some of the baseball teams or in some of the different parts of it, there were definitely a group of Kibei leaders that were part of it. 'Cause I could just remember them speaking or, well, yelling at us, actually. [Laughs] And somewhat broken English. But there was kind of a group of parents that were kind of keeping the troop together, moving it.

TI: Now were these Kibeis, were they there because they had sons in the troop?

RK: Right, yeah. They would have a lot of their kids were involved with the troop.

TI: And this might be a hard question, but did you notice any interactions between the Kibeis and the Niseis? Was there any... did you just notice how they interacted with each other?

RK: I didn't notice anything... I mean, all I can know is my dad used to give a ride to one of the Kibei troop leaders 'cause he didn't drive. And so I would be sitting in the back, and they would be arguing about different things. And, but then as soon as we got to the -- his name is Mr. Nishimoto -- to his home, he would say, "Well, Harry, bye." And you know, they would finish their conversation in a friendly way, but during the course of him taking Mr. Nishimoto home, they would have some intense conversations, some of which I didn't know what they were arguing about, but they were just having some kind of discussion. But they seemed to get along.

TI: And would they discuss things in Japanese or English?

RK: It would be mixed. I mean, Mr. Nishimoto's English was kind of not the greatest. Yeah, he would kind of mix up English and Japanese, and my father's Japanese wasn't the greatest, but he could communicate well enough with Mr. Nishimoto to make do.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.