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TI: Your father was involved with the JACL.

RK: Right.

TI: So tell me what you know about that.

RK: Well, I know that when people were being rounded up or whatever, he actually was trying to facilitate people through that process. And I know a lot of the JACLs did that. I don't know if it was called the JACL at that time, but it was kind of the predecessor organization, and he was involved with just trying to help people get, readjust to the fact that they were gonna be leaving their places and just facilitating that.

TI: Did you ever have a conversation with him about the, I guess, the choices that the JACL had to make during that time period in terms of how much to cooperate with the government or not?

RK: Not that much. I mean, I can say that in terms of talking to him directly about the experience, it didn't happen 'til, like, way, way later. I think it would have been, like, in the '70s. I mean, prior to that, it wasn't something he really shared with us in terms of how it impacted him.

TI: Yeah, we're gonna get to that later, but I'm just curious while we're here. So in those initial conversations in the '70s, you were, what, in your early twenties.

RK: Right. So I think --

TI: This was a pretty turbulent time in our country, too, in terms of questioning authority, questioning the government. What was that conversation like between you and your father?

RK: So I think the first time we really talked about it directly would have been, would have been the summer of '76, I believe. Yeah, it would have been the summer of '76, and we actually took this long vacation through Utah. And that's where my, my roommate from law school was living in Utah, so we figured we'd take a trip there, and we went to Yellowstone and did some other things. But while we were in Utah, he felt like he wanted to show us where Topaz was. So eventually we found the site, which took a little bit of time because it wasn't really marked very well. But we ended up driving out in the wilderness area and then you could kind of tell where the, some of the foundations were and whatever. At that time, again, it wasn't something that we had talked about a lot, but it was just something that he, like, wanted us to know where he had been and what it was like there. And I think it was kind of just -- he didn't really have to say too much, but it was kind of clear, clear from the way that place was that it was really desolated and isolated and what have you.

TI: And when, and your mother was there also?

RK: Yes.

TI: I'm trying to get a sense of how... or what was the feeling when they told you about it? Was it a place of sorrow, was it a place of more matter of fact?

RK: It was pretty factual. It was like, "This is where we were." He just wanted us to see it and kind of get a sense of what it was like. And he didn't editorialize about it very much. It was more like, "This is where I was for this period of time during the '40s."

TI: And did you ever have a conversation about his involvement with the JACL or what he did with that?

RK: Not... I don't know that I never really directly discussed that with him. I don't think we ever really talked about that directly.

TI: And I'm trying to get a sense of your thoughts about the JACL. I mean, when I started reading more about the wartime experiences, frankly I was a little shocked at some of the things that happened in JACL and what they were doing. And I remember questioning some people in Seattle about that. And some of the Niseis who were involved would sometimes fire back, "Well, you had to be there, you didn't really understand some of the things." I was wondering if any of that ever happened with you and your father.

RK: No, I don't know that we ever discussed it. I think later, as I became a little more educated on some of the other involvement in terms of some of the draft resisters and some of the people who went back to Japan and other kinds of things that people did, you know, the thoughts occurred about, "That was a tough time, and there were some tough choices, and maybe some people maybe -- if they thought about it now -- maybe would have made a different choice."

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.