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TI: Talking about your grandmother and grandfather on the Nakayama side. But before we talk more, I'm just curious, did you hear any stories, were there any difficulties being a Christian in Japan during this time?

JG: I think so. I didn't hear specifically but I would think so.

TI: So you didn't hear anything specific that they --

JG: I did not hear anything specific at that time and my grandmother -- because I never knew my grandfather because he died in the '30s before my mother and father got married -- and all I know that this woman is intrepid. [Laughs] She was like four foot eleven or maybe four foot seven, she had size one shoes, but this woman, I could you stories about this woman that impresses me. I mean, I am going to write so many stories on my grandmother.

TI: Well, tell me a couple of them. I mean, we're talking about your grandparents on that side so your grandmother, what was her name, oh, Tsuna.

JG: Tsuna, yes.

TI: And so tell me something about her.

JG: Well, Tsuna, she was a very interesting woman. First of all, her father... she moved to Kyoto, I should go back, she moved to Kyoto when she was -- no, Nagoya when she was five. And she went to this Christian high school and she was in the first graduating class, so I mean she was just sort of this unusual young girl. And I'm just thinking about her and that she... when she got here, her son, she encouraged her son to be excellent and he was in the band and he played the tuba, he goes to medical school first generation right? He's in World War I as a medic.

TI: So this is all in the United States?

JG: All in the United States. Her father worked for the Jinrikisha Company which later became Studebaker. Her (father's father) was Dr. Asai, a medical doctor, I know nothing about her mother. But this woman comes here to the United States, I mean, it's tough. She raises her son, they don't have children almost eleven or twelve years later but while her husband is working as a house person on the railroad, she later -- they have boarders in their, wherever they're staying. Every place there are boarders, one of the boarders later became prime minister of Japan during the war. Well, he lived as a boarder at my grandfather's and grandmother's home when he was a student. I have all that information downstairs in my car. I mean, it's just they did things, they had Japanese-Japanese as boarders, they had Germans and Irish people as boarders, men, you know. And they started a farm.

TI: And then where... explain where was this boarding happening?

JG: In Oakland. I have a list of these different places they lived through the census records and photographs of my mother when she was growing up. They had a farm there, they were raising food, this is in Oakland mind you, and chickens, and I don't remember ever eating a chicken growing up because they must have killed and eaten a lot of chickens. And to this day I love chicken. [Laughs] But my mother never served it. And then finally around 1915, in the census records in 1920 they are now merchants. They had a grocery store and she ran that grocery store until the war in Oakland, downtown Oakland area. And the reason I know this is because my grandmother, after my grandfather died, she would go all over the place from downtown Oakland, West Tenth Street area around that area, downtown Oakland area, and she'd take several buses and visit friends as far as Hayward, if you can believe it. I mean, I don't think you really have an idea how difficult that is to take buses and trains to Hayward from downtown Oakland. I rode the buses from east Oakland to Cal and it took way over an hour. And so going to Hayward it would be a two hour trip. And so she was in her sixties and seventies and eighties doing this visiting friends weekly. She would come to my mother's house, our house, and she would sew but it would also give her an opportunity to see the other grandmother who was taking care of my sister, you know, while my mother and father were working and I was going to school. But she was so beloved, I mean, the cat loved her even.

TI: And she was just this tiny woman.

JG: She was this tiny woman. One story was that this little cat, every Thursday would go to the bus stop at the same time to greet Grandmother and walk her back because she always had treats. My grandmother was so nice that when it was a windy day two young women got off the bus stop and because it was so windy and she was so small, grabbed her on both arms and took her to our house. [Laughs]

TI: So she must have had quite a personality.

JG: She was a lovely woman, lovely woman. And this tiny woman. Another friend, Mrs. Endo, who's the granddaughter of this woman that my grandmother befriended, the story goes that in Japan this young woman, Mrs. Ukai, her mother died and so the father went to the United States and he was going to send money back so these children lived with different relatives. So when he remarried and had a nursery, he said, "Please come over. I will help you with your education." But in reality she was there to help with the children. So my grandmother stepped in and sort of became her mother because she was sort of like a Cinderella story and my grandmother arranged their marriage and as the children grew up they would come, Grandmother would visit or they would come and visit. Mrs. Endo told me, she is now ninety-two. She said, "Your grandmother was so nice." She said, "Oh, we would go and visit her about once a year and they had this lovely store and there would be these jars of candy and I could smell the noodles cooking and we would go in the back and your grandmother would have this lovely meal for us and then we'd go home with little packages of candy." And she said that was such a treat. This woman is ninety-two years old remembering this story, sharing how my grandmother would come also when she was a girl, my grandmother would take several buses and trains to come and visit Ms. Ukai who was Mrs. Endo's mother and visit with her and listen to her.

TI: That's a good story. So just the, probably she tells the smells and everything just from prewar, going to the store.

JG: This is got to be in the '20s and '30s because I mean she's ninety now.

SF: Was the store a kind of a general store that served everybody?

JG: Yes, it was a general store but I imagine they served mostly the Japanese community, you know. But I imagine Caucasians went there, too. And the thing about that was they not only did that and had the farm because my grandfather... my Uncle Tyler remembers Grandpa Nakayama at whatever period, was it '20s or '30s, must have been the '20's, driving the cart all the way out to Hayward. If you could imagine driving a cart and a horse all the way to Hayward to sell vegetables and stuff it's just... I couldn't believe it. I mean, hearing these stories from Ms. Ukai... I mean Mrs. Endo, Ms. Ukai's daughter. (Narr. note: Her maiden name was Ukai and her married name is Mrs. Tsuchiya.)

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.