<Begin Segment 11>

TI: Okay so you talked earlier about there was an ad in the Topaz Times asking if anyone was interested in... and that placed by the Duvenecks. And your mother applied and she was accepted for you and her to go to the Duvenecks'. So let's pick up the story there, I mean, about what time did this happen?

JG: It must have been... the request was signed in March of 1944 and we actually left in May of 1944. What's interesting is that it says June of '44 but on my mind, my mother kept on saying May of '44 so I go with what my mom said.

TI: Although the paper you said, says June?

JG: No, the paper said March.

TI: March.

JG: March was the approval letter.

SF: Did the Duvenecks send request to other camps?

JG: I don't know. All I know is that Mrs. Duveneck said we were the first ones you know. And then thereafter many people came including my two aunts.

TI: And before we go there tell me your first impressions. How did you get from Topaz to the Duvenecks'?

JG: Well, we went by train and we went late and we left late because my grandmother, or the family that was there other than my mother had warned her that she might be shot because of the bigotry on the coast. And so my mother, not to perturb them, decided to leave without fanfare later and we left and we took the ferry and the train I guess... the train and the ferry and then another train and the Duvenecks met us. And all I can remember... what I do remember is that I really liked the place. I got to ride horses, there were two dogs there, this one Scottie and this Saint Bernard and the Saint Bernard was so big, Hans, his name was Hans. And he was so loving he would jump on you and then of course how their jowls drip all this saliva. [Laughs] And I remember the food there was wonderful because you had eggs that you actually took out of the nest and Mrs. Duveneck would take me up to the chicken house and we would gather eggs. And then we'd have oatmeal and real milk and real cream and remember camp had powdered milk or did you hear that it had powdered milk and powdered eggs. My mother would get real eggs every once and a while and give me a real egg but we had our real eggs and real milk which we gathered. And vegetables that were from the garden, the ranch garden. And there were kids on the ranch and we played.

TI: So tell me now who else was on the ranch? So it's you and your mom when you first show up and who else? You had Mrs. Duveneck.

JG: And Mr. Duveneck. Her family they're all grown and away in college or elsewhere and Julius Wahl, he immigrated from Nazi Germany, he was a Jew and he found refuge there, he and his wife. His wife had died by that time, he was there and he was sort of an artist in residence because he hand-carved harpsichords and he was a musician also and he was there. And the ranch foreman and his wife, the Steinmann, they had a niece there, Laura, she was about eight, Carl was seven and then there was the ranch worker there, Elmer Anderson and his wife but they had separate houses. The Steinmann and the Andersons had separate houses. Miriam and Elmer were the mother and father and they had three boys, Gene the boy because I was Jean the girl, and there was Bob and Roger. Roger was the eldest. We were nine, eight, seven, six and five.

TI: So there were lots of kids just your age?

JG: Yes, right, and we all... I have fond memories of climbing this great magnolia tree and I was proud to say that I was second best climber even though I was the second youngest. [Laughs]

TI: So it's such a contrast from being at Topaz.

JG: It was. It was such a contrast. Topaz was sadness and dust and dirt and poor food and lack of privacy. And here we go to the Duvenecks' where there's space and clean bathrooms, well, not that they weren't clean but privacy, your own room, fresh milk, eggs, and fresh vegetables. Kind people, artistic people not that there weren't artistic people in Topaz because there were. And kind people, too.

TI: But just very different circumstances, different conditions.

JG: Yes, and children who had a different kind of life. I don't know if I'm wrong but when you get into a community where there's a lot of fear, people behave differently and when you're in a community where there's a lot of natural things going on like a normal farming... there was more than farming going on at the Duvenecks' because there was also a lot of social justice issues. the Duvenecks were amazing people. They founded the Loma Prieta Chapter of the Sierra Club. She founded a progressive school in Menlo Park, Palo Alto area. She founded the Americans for Democratic Action. She started the first interracial camp in 1945. She was tossed out of the campuses because she dared do that. Imagine putting an African American as the director, Mills College grad, and a Japanese American camp counselor and maybe a Hispanic person with a Caucasian person and having children of all color come together and camp. Her idea was if you get kids together young, they don't see color, they see kids. Anyway she did... and she also started the first youth hostel, I mean there were a lot... she aided the Indians, she visited every single reservation and tried to make their life better. She helped the Japanese Americans, she had when Oakland was having its difficulty with Black Power she had the children come to camp, their children, I mean, Richard Aoki started that movement he was one of the people who started the Black Panthers and they were not that fearful organization, they were trying to do things like "bread basket," it was really misread. Well, Mrs. Duveneck saw that so she... I know you know, Tom, that at her place Cesar Chavez planned the great boycotts. I mean she... this is the woman whose home we went to who saw how wrong it was for the Japanese Americans to be treated and really provided a place of peace, healing for all of us who came there.

TI: Did you stay in touch or keep watching what she was doing later on, I mean after you left?

JG: My parents did and when I moved after... I went to her camp for two years and my parents always went there and I went there with them and then when I moved to Chicago I lost track but my parents kept on going and visited. And then when I came back from Chicago we went to her place and visited and that's when she was writing the book, Life on Two Levels. And she offered my husband and me a position, me to be the hostel manager and John to take care as ranch foreman but I had just signed a contract for teaching and we just bought a house and John just got accepted to San Jose State so he was going back for a degree. And so we had to turn it down but our life would have been so different if we had not done that.

TI: Oh, interesting, yeah.

JG: If we had gone maybe one month earlier before I got my contract.

TI: So yeah I'm curious, I'm jumping around a little bit but earlier you mentioned how you found out your mother a staunch Republican. And Ms. Duveneck was a very progressive liberal. Did politics ever come up between... your mother ever mention about Mrs. Duveneck's politics or anything?

JG: No, she was very respectful and in awe and maybe that's why I am. But I think, of course my mother's politics and my politics are quite a bit different.

TI: Yeah, so I was just curious about that.

JG: I think Mrs. Duveneck had a big influence on me and my politics.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.