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TI: So, Terry, I want to go back to that. So you're about thirteen years old when the war started. And first, how many other Japanese and Japanese Americans were at your school?

HT: It must have been at least two dozen.

TI: So about two dozen, and was it hard for all the Japanese students?

HT: I would say so. We had to protect each other, so we used to always stay together, group, going to school together, going back from school. And of course, it wasn't, I guess it was not as bad as it really could be. It's just that your friends, kids, you know how kids are. They're mean, you know. But they got over it. About four or five years, after a while, they were back to the norm. Everybody, we got along great.

TI: But during those, those early days, it was difficult, so one thing you did was walk together as a group back and forth to school?

HT: Yeah, we had to walk together as a group, going back to school, and when we come out of school we all meet in front of the school, then you go together to protect the girls, mostly. Then the police are always there, and there used to be policemen stationed, I guess, each corner, watching, making sure nothing happens to us. And for some reason, Japanese people, we never gave police any trouble, so they were real protective of us. They used to come by, 'cause they were always, if we were together someplace from the Japantown, sitting around there, and sometimes on a Saturday night, around a dozen of us sit up there and this guy played ukulele, we sing song out there in the street. Police come by, honk the horn, wave and all that. But we didn't have any trouble. I didn't have any trouble with adult except there's maybe a couple places you couldn't go. But that went for anybody that's not a Mormon, you cannot go. [Laughs] It's pretty strict control.

TI: When this was going on, what did your father say about all this in terms of the, maybe people giving you a hard time?

HT: My father, those things never bothered him. It never did. He just, he just said he felt sorry for them for being the way they are. He was very religious, you know. [Laughs] I would have said, "Gee, we had a fight today." "Don't do that again." That was it. [Laughs] "Okay, Dad, whatever you say." But yeah, he was... of course, he came back from camp, so he wasn't... I don't know. He just kind of forgot about it. He had bitterness inside, but if he did, he didn't tell us about it. 'Cause it's too... lot of people still came by.

TI: Okay, yeah, I want to talk about your father and what happened to him, but before we do that, you also talked about how the Mormons seemed... you said maybe later on you found out about this, but how sometimes they would even drive you home from school?

HT: Yeah, and I don't know what to... see, a friend of mine, we used to take judo, we were these young kids, but so we used to go to police academy to teach 'em judo, exhibition. So police all got to know the Japanese kids. So I guess after they seen the Japanese people walking to school or something, they would pick you up and give you a ride to school. They were very protective of us. Captain Hale, I think his name was, and every time they would honk their horn, they would always wave to us. And I guess that's the way the Mormons are, I guess. They're friendly.

SF: Do you know whether the police department or the Mormons, there was any kind of formal request that they help out the Japanese or protect the Japanese? Or was it just simply that they were...

HT: Simply just, yeah, that's what they do. That's in the religion, I guess. There's no club or anything, no. It's not an organization, just a police, I guess most of the police was a Mormon, I guess. They were rather nice to us. Before, that first time is bad, back in 1941, when it first started, the war, it was, some people throw rocks at their house and breaking windows, and we had this swastika-looking manji for Buddhists, they don't use that anymore, but people, I guess, they thought it was German or something. They used to bang on the door nighttime and honk the horn out there and throw rocks. They did that for a while, but it stopped like that. Police jumped on that. That's the city's, one thing, nobody locks the door. I guess you didn't know that, but in Salt Lake that time, we never locked doors except when we leave town. [Laughs]

TI: And so it's a very kind of friendly place in many ways in terms of keeping things safe.

HT: They wouldn't let kuro-chan in, but they let us in. And then we could ride on the bus or go to the movie house. They didn't stop us. They didn't call you "Jap" or anything. In fact, some people from Topaz, I guess, they come up to the city to work or something, and Mormon people would be the sponsors.

TI: Did your father ever talk about the Mormons and what he thought about them?

HT: Oh, he liked them. At that time, the head of the Mormon temple, that's headquarters there, he used to come over to the house and have chazuke with us. So he was, he would check up on my dad once in a while, call up say, "How's everything going? Any trouble?" And let him know. And my father liked those people. He used to come, we used to have tea, and then we introduced him to chazuke and all that. [Laughs] They never had chazuke. "What the hell is that?" Oh, gee, it's funny days.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2010 Densho. All Rights Reserved.