<Begin Segment 10>

FA: Okay, is there anything else you want to say besides that? That I haven't given you a chance to say?

FH: Well, if you have any more questions, I tried to answer them.

FC: Yes, and you did well.

FH: Fairly and honestly, and my, I give you my opinion. And I heard your opinion, I agree with some of what you say, but some of it I don't agree with at all. So there's always going to be that difference. And if your whole project is bent towards justifying the Heart Mountain resisters, I don't think that project is good. You're not trying to present... you're presenting more pro than con. You have to admit that.

FA: Oh, no. Not at all. I'm presenting both sides. I'm presenting both sides.

FH: Yeah, but I think I see what the end result's going to be.

FA: Sure.

FC: Let's say you're right. Let's say you're right. The end product, in your opinion -- and you may disagree in the end -- but in your opinion, the end product that we produce after you've seen it, is pro-resisters, anti-JACL. What effect do you think this will have on the Japanese American community? Or the perception of Japanese Americans by the people who see this?

FH: You know, when you talk about Japanese Americans, you have a group of Nisei, older Nisei, and not-so-old Nisei. The Sansei and Yonsei are not in it. They're not in Japanese American society so much. And when you get down to Yonsei, I think... here's what I truly believe: that JACL has a limited life. Because the real young people are not getting into it. They're not interested in Japanese American things. Which may be good, which may be bad, but what are you going to do? Like I said, I have a great-grandchild that's one-sixteenth Japanese. His name's going to be Japanese, but that'd be all. His physical features and everything are all non-Japanese. So I think that's the way we're going to go. Especially with the great percentage of intermarriages that are coming up. And I think these "halves," hapas, are going to marry out, the quarters are going to marry out. Presently, the Japanese part will be very, very small.

FA: And how do you feel about that?

FH: I think it's inevitable. In my own family I have three grandkids that are pure, so-called "pure" Japanese. And I have three that are half, and our great-grandchild is one-sixteenth. And that's the way it's going to go. I'll bet you the Chinese American group are having the same kind of troubles. That is, they're not -- what's the name of that outfit? Organization of Chinese Americans?

FA: OCA.

FH: I'll bet they're not getting support from the younger Chinese Americans. I don't think they are.

FA: Actually, they are because they are more active, politically, in Washington, D.C., but that's, that's irrelevant.

FH: Well, anyway, that's the way I think all of these so-called ethnic groups are going.

FA: And do you feel sorrow about that, or do you feel...

FH: No, I don't feel sorry. I told my kids, "I don't care who you marry, but marry good people. I don't care what their race is. Marry good people."

FC: So these "good people" have Japanese names or Chinese names, but no physical characteristics, they see this thing.

FH: They see what thing?

FA: This TV program.

FC: They see the, they see the program that we produce, and it's not the program...

FA: You would like to see.

FC: You would like to see.

FH: Yeah.

FC: So what effect do you think this will have on them? That they'll just turn it off?

FH: Very, very frankly, I think your program is going to seen by a very select group. And I don't think you're going to make a big impression on anybody. I really think that. One way or the other.

FC: What if it were the other way around? What if it turned out anti?

FH: Anti what?

FA: Resisters.

FC: Anti-resisters. And...

FA: Pro-JACL.

FC: ...pro-JACL? And we show it to this same audience of Americans with Japanese names and other kinds of names?

FH: You know that conference in UCLA when you were on panel?

FA: Yes.

FH: I knew the group itself was pro, because every time Frank or one of the other panel members spoke, there was applause. But when I spoke, there was no applause. And you had me at a great disadvantage. You have a big voice, a microphone, you sounded all over the hall. I didn't have a microphone, and I couldn't, I couldn't get through there. I wish that George Hori had given me a chance to get to the table with a microphone, but he didn't. But that time, I had a very poor opinion of you. [Laughs] I'll say that very frankly. What you said I didn't think was at all suitable for that thing.

FC: Why? I mean, it's...

FA: Why?

FC: It was an, not suitable for an academic setting? Not suitable for a meeting at the store?

FH: It wasn't a fair statement. You didn't make fair statements. You didn't make fair statements, I don't think. Matter of fact, I have a recording of you, what you said.

FA: Yeah, well, that's Frank. [Laughs] I appreciate the chance to come talk to you, Mr. Hirasuna.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 1998, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.