<Begin Segment 14>

FA: Before the end of the war you had one more mission from the government regarding the Fair Play Committee. Can you tell me about the trial?

BK: Oh, the one in Cheyenne? Yeah, that was a strange, kind of strange one. I was ordered to go there and I was supposed to represent the, I mean, testify for the government but they never called me to testify. And I was there a couple of days as I remember and I remember seeing the trial going on and I didn't pay too much attention. I didn't sit in on the sessions.

FA: If you were called to, if you had been called to the stand, what were you prepared to say?

BK: I don't know. After watching all these television shows about Clinton, I think I'd just wait 'til the attorneys asked me questions, and then I'd answer whatever they wanted to know.

FA: [Laughs] Thanks, Ben. You must have been, sitting there for two days, you must have been rehearsing in your mind, "Well, if they ask me this, I'll say that." What was your general... I'm sure you had an idea of what you were going to say if you were called. What were you planning to say?

BK: Well, I don't really know what I would've said. I certainly wouldn't have agreed with their stance for sure.

FA: Why not?

BK: Well, it's just like I said. When I was born and raised in Nebraska, then it's a whole different ballgame and I just didn't feel it was patriotic for them to refuse to be drafted. Seemed to me that if they had the opportunity to fight for their country then they shouldn't turn it down. But then their circumstances were entirely different than mine, they got the treatment that they did. So while I didn't agree with them, they certainly had their, their principles and their rights.

FA: This is a difficult question, I suppose, but knowing that their circumstances were different, were you, you were still prepared to give testimony to a jury that would have led to their imprisonment?

BK: Well, it's possible. I think, I think the whole thing came down to the fact that they were being tried for disobeying the law. I mean, of course they had their constitutional rights were part of the issue, but it wasn't just Japanese Americans. If anybody else who would, resisted or refused to be drafted will get the same type of treatment, I'd think.

BK: Certainly it was a violation of law, in fact. You're familiar with the concept of test cases. Did you think, were you aware that they were deliberately breaking the law in order to clarify their rights as American citizens?

BK: Well yeah, that would seem like that was obvious. They were willing to go to jail to show how they felt about the whole thing.

FA: Knowing that they were your own people, wouldn't you want to have them clarify, help clarify rights that you held as well?

BK: Well yes. It's a... you know, it's a... there were quite a few of them as I understand, there were over three hundred of 'em who were in the same situation who did not refuse and they were drafted out of Heart Mountain. And probably more than a thousand who enlisted.

FA: Yes, yes.

BK: And so, you know, it depends on the individuals and how, how they felt about it.

FA: But that's... but the question still is, Ben, weren't, didn't you have an interest in helping them to clarify rights that you shared as American citizens? They were trying to clarify their rights as American citizens by obviously forcing a test case. Wouldn't you have an interest in that, too?

BK: Well, I should have, yes. I did my thing and they did theirs.

FA: What was the courthouse like? Do you recall anything about the courthouse, Cheyenne federal courthouse?

BK: Yeah, it was very large and there were lots of seats and most of 'em were empty. I really wasn't... you know, I didn't sit in on the sessions and listen to the testimony or things like that.

FA: Where did you stay? Where did the government put you up?

BK: They just put me up in a hotel there, nearby there. That's all I remember.

FA: How were you dressed when you went to court?

BK: Oh, I was still in the service so, I think that was one of the reasons that they wanted me there.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 1998, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.