<Begin Segment 9>

FC: -- about the JACL.

RS: Yes, I did, my friends warned me.

FA: What did they warn you?

RS: "Be careful, Randy, watch your back." "Why do you want to join JACL?" These are all my progressive friends at the PSW reception. They all came up to me, all my friends. [Laughs] They know me, all of 'em, and they all warned me, and they said, "Randy, are you crazy?" I said, "Look, maybe." [Laughs]

FA: So why... I guess I'm thinking more in terms of the JACL's record of cooperating with the government, suppressing resistance, opposing test cases, you knew all that.

RS: But I did know some other things, that there was change, that there was a possibility and hope for change right eminently, preeminently waiting for it to happen. We had a progressive board that voted for the same-sex marriage, that was defending Bruce Yamashita, you know, against the military, that the issue of the war resisters, there were a lot of people like me who knew that an apology was overdue. I mean, there were enough of us, there were enough of us in the organization at that time to give me hope. I mean, I am an optimist; I'm an idealist. That keeps my engine roaring, but I'm not a fool, either. Sometimes I look like a fool when I step out from a decision I made, but I'll always give it my best shot, and I did truly believe there was hope for the future. I did this largely because of my children, because I have kids, and I know that we needed a national organization, a civil rights organization for Asian Americans on a national level. I know this much, that it was important that we have that advocacy and that defense and that educational front. We need JACL for that, those reasons, and I wasn't willing to give up as much of what I had in my life at that time to this organization, to move it forward, because I have children, and I don't want to see the past history of racism and oppression repeated for my kids. [Interruption] We've all paid too dear a price for all of this, and we don't, and the only way we're gonna make sure we have that freedom is that we're always on the forefront defending it. And that's why I joined the organization. I believed that we could move it to the next level. I did truly believe that, that's why perhaps it hurt me the most of any experience in my life, was one of the most painful, for that very reason.

FA: So do we have that now?

RS: I don't want to talk about the board I don't even know, or the new director, whom I've heard he's a very nice person who has commitment, and I wish him well as long as, and the rest of the staff. Because they're still dealing with an entrenched group of old-timers who do not want to step aside from committee chairs, from, really, controlling the organization as well as the newspaper, and they don't want to move it past 1950. And we're living in 1996, going into the year 2000. I don't think we can live in 1950 any longer.

FC: The young, potential leaders like yourself, who left the JACL or were forced to leave, do you have some names?

RS: Oh, of people who were forced to leave in the past?

FC: Or feel, or feel, or have given up.

RS: I, you know what, I'd hate to speak for friends because of the way the community is, and they'll jump on them, and if they, I feel people should speak for themselves. But let me tell you that there are people who resigned from the board, the prior board that I served under, who were very progressive. Two women that I respect tremendously who have left the organization, well, their first names, well, Ruth is one of them, and Tricia is the other. Without speaking for them, they left along with some other people because they, they just gave up. They tried everything they could to save this organization, and the organization refused to allow itself to be saved, basically.

[Interruption]

FC: What qualities did these people bring, and what has the JACL lost?

RS: First of all, they lost not only a level of organizational, professional skills that these people had, 'cause they're, these people were, like, administrators in private life. So they had all the professional skills they needed. Secondly, they also had a vision. They had a large understanding of the struggle, the human rights, civil rights struggle in this country. Not just the Japanese American story, they had a wider understanding of how that links together with civil rights in general. Also, they were involved, very actively, in community boards and in other types of organizations in the community. Broadly networked and coalition builders, so that they could reach out to other segments in the community around issues that unite us all. And that's what this organization needs, and they were a link to the community and to other organizations, and also to the future, because they had a vision. They had great ideas, they had creative people, they were good planners, and they had this commitment that you rarely find in young people today, often, and they had this commitment. So we lost some of the best and the brightest, I think. In fact, one of my friends, who's a professor at Berkeley in Asian American Studies said, "Randy," the other night, said, "I think maybe you represent the last hurrah for JACL." And I said, "Well, I thought maybe that happened in the '70s when some of my friends tried to enter the organization and they were totally kicked out, and those friends now are leaders, I mean, these are people that are well-respected now. But I didn't realize that I would find a second opportunity in my life to try to take this organization across that threshold, that self-imposed barrier. And I guess maybe I, maybe I was the last hurrah, maybe we were. I would hope not; I hope there's another generation of people crazy enough as I was, with enough passion and commitment and willingness to try it again. You know, I'm a believer. But if it never happens again, at least I made the effort, and I know friends who made the effort, and I know people in the community who appreciated that effort, and those things don't go unforgotten. We're still active; I'm doing things now that I wouldn't have done if I was in JACL, so it was a mixed blessing, and I look to the future for the organization. I hope it finds its way.

FC: Will the community last that long?

RS: The community... yeah, it'll last that long. It'll last longer than JACL. I hope JACL stays around long enough to serve the community.

FA: JACL says it's a civil rights organization. Is it?

RS: Currently, no. Currently, no. If it gets back on track, it could be. It's not speaking out on major issues right now.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 1996, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.