Densho Digital Archive
Frank Abe Collection
Title: Kats Kunitsugu - Paul Tsuneishi Interview
Narrators: Kats Kunitsugu, Paul Tsuneishi
Interviewer: Frank Abe (primary); Frank Chin (secondary)
Location: Los Angeles, California
Date: August 22, 1995
Densho ID: denshovh-kkats_g-01-0008

<Begin Segment 8>

FC: Okay. Would you do me a favor now and define the term 'Issei.'

KK: Issei?

FC: Issei.

KK: Issei are the immigrants who came over from Japan. So that they could be the old Issei that came at the beginning of the century or prior to that, they could be the Shin-Issei that came after the war.

FC: The term Nisei. Give me a summary of what that means.

KK: Nisei are the Isseis' children, the second generation born here.

FC: And Kibei?

KK: Now there I think there's a matter of probably language because I'm a Kibei. I lived in Japan four years. It was not long enough for me to be completely Japanese. I do read, write and speak Japanese fluently, but I don't think Japanese enough, and it's not my native tongue either, so that strictly speaking, I think Kibei were Nisei who were sent to Japan at an early age, probably stayed there longer than ten years and then returned to the United States to live the rest of their lives here, but their native language is Japanese and they think Japanese probably.

FC: Of these groups, Issei, Nisei, Kibei, were they all treated equally by the government in camp?

PT: No, no. Well, when you say "in camp"...

FC: Or in the community or anywhere.

PT: Well, you must remember that a lot of Issei leaders were picked up before or after Pearl Harbor, sent to special camps. Issei in the camps were not given leadership positions, although a few of them were in leadership position. What happened was each block within camps was asked to select a leader which... and that group was to meet with the governing body there and Norm Mineta's father was one, my dad was one, we used to call them "blockheads."

KK: [Laughs] Yeah, I was just going to say...

PT: So, but beyond that, really the camp administration looked to Nisei whom, with whom they were more comfortable in dealing with, so I think there, depending on the circumstances, they were treated, we were treated differently.

FC: Who was treated worst, or the best, of the three groups?

KK: Well, probably the JACL Nisei had it the best.

PT: Oh yes, I think so. Those who were most American in their attitude and being, no question about it.

Male voice: Who, who did you say?

PT: Those who were most Anglo-like in their, in their being and their conversation and fluent in English.

KK: In any setup, you have people who tend to sort of float to the top in the sense that they are going to be among the people who make decisions or who help make decisions and somehow are in on the real action. And during the evacuation, there was the question of who got to eat in the... on the train, who got the best sleepers or whatever, the best treatment, that sort of thing. And it all seemed to be -- and this, some of it was rumors because I never saw it, but the rumor was that the JACL leaders always got the best treatment, in the case of, even during the worst of times, there were always some people who got the best locations in camp or whatever. [Laughs]

FC: I heard the Kibei were especially singled out for suspicion.

PT: That's correct.

KK: Well, I think certain people felt that way because many of the Kibei were quite outspoken in their allegiance to Japan.

FC: Were any of these Kibei who, I guess, supported Japan's side in the war, did they support this actively?

KK: No, I think they kept pretty much, if they did it was in writing or not in any overt way.

FC: They weren't building weapons or drawing maps and sending 'em up by balloons to Japan?

KK: I think Japan itself did not trust people to spy for them unless they were in the military, under the direct control.

FC: Very good. Very good.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1995, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.