<Begin Segment 7>

FC: Would you explain the term -- for me who doesn't understand anything Latin -- coram nobis? What's a writ of coram nobis?

FO: A writ of coram nobis is a -- I don't know what the Latin translation is, but the purpose of it is after there's been a conviction, a final conviction, as there was of Korematsu and Hirabayashi, if there are facts which had they been known at the time of the trial, might have or would have caused a different decision to be made, the court will give relief. And that's what happened later on with the Korematsu and the Hirabayashi case. And the fact that was known -- I don't know if you know -- that was not known at the time, was that there wasn't any military necessity. [Laughs] And the thing that is intriguing is that in the brief that the Justice Department presented to the United States Supreme Court in support of the evacuation and of the, of the curfew, there was a footnote that originally said that, virtually said that, and that was changed. When it got to the higher, the lower guys who wrote the brief in the first instance, told the truth. [Laughs] When it got to the higher guys, they changed it around. I don't, I wouldn't exactly call them liars, but they changed it around so that it appeared to the Supreme Court that there was military necessity.

Well, later on, a professor at the university in San Diego, Peter Irons, discovered through the archives and getting historical data, this, this change in the footnote -- it's interesting that a footnote should have such, such significance -- and succeeded in getting the courts to set aside those convictions. So that Korematsu and Hirabayashi are not felons. [Laughs]

FC: You've met some of the resisters from Heart Mountain.

FO: Yes, I did. As a matter of fact, I had the distinct pleasure and honor of presenting them with a citation at the last ACLU garden party. Yes I did, about ten of 'em came for that meeting. They all looked pretty okay to me. [Laughs]

FC: Why were they being given this citation?

FO: Well, as you know, and this, of course, again is just part of history, they were really vilified, by perhaps the JACL people, for taking the position that they did, they were called traitors and so on, and they must have had a hell of a time standing up for principle. And we in the ACLU for years have taken the position that people who stand up for principle ought to be recognized, and so we gave them a citation this last time in recognition of their position. So that's how it came about, and I was chosen -- and I was very happy -- to make the presentation.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1995, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.