<Begin Segment 11>

FA: Even after the trial, did any, didn't any of the Niseis or the others come to you and say, "Told you, you see what happens when you get in trouble?"

GK: No. My brother came and said, "I told you you guys are gonna lose," I said, "I know it." I said, "I'm not crying about it," I said, "I knew," because he said he's a soldier and the way they were treated, you know, 'cause they're Japanese. He said, "You know you're not going to win," and I said, "I know it, but we're trying to get a point through, 'cause we're citizens of this country, you were drafted and you're a good solider and I'm proud of that." But I said, "They have a right to defend themselves in camp, because they're stuck behind barbed wire."

[Interruption]

FA: After, again, after the trial, didn't anybody come and tell you that, "I told you so," that you were going to lose? You said your brother did.

GK: Well, he was in the army, and when he got on a furlough he came, but actually, I guess they were hesitant to come and directly tell me, but my brother said, "You know, I told you you're gonna lose." And I said, "I knew that." I said, "Don't worry, don't worry about me." I worry more about him, because he was going overseas, so when he didn't write to us or something, my mother would make me write a letter to him, then his officers would give him heck and say, "How come you didn't write to your mother?" So he told me, "Never write a letter like that to my officer again," I said, "Okay." [Laughs]

FA: But your brother being a draftee, did he resent what your husband was doing?

GK: No, no, he didn't resent it but he said I had no chance, we had no chance winning, he said, "Because we in the army are treated like Japanese, not like the other people, they watch very closely." So he said, "You won't win."

FA: After the war, how has it been to know what your husband did, and yet have no one acknowledge it or recognize it?

GK: No one bothered, we went back to where we used to live, Santa Clara County, and I didn't have anybody say anything to me, and if they did, well, I guess I just went and said what I felt like saying, and my husband always gave his view of it. And some people said that they didn't want to do this or they didn't go out and do this, but I was never troubled with it. In fact, some of the people said, "I don't blame you," you know. Then I had, when we were getting loaded up to go to Santa Anita, and there was this lady, and I had my daughter and she was tiny and I'm carrying all these things, so she helped put us on train, and she was so sorry for us. And I think she was a teacher or something, but I lost touch with her. But she used to write to me and she said, "Please always write," but you know, when you're in camp and you have to watch your child and take your washing, and take it to the wash, to another unit and do that, your life gets so mixed up. You have to either go eat when the bell rings or whatever, that you just were always doing something.

FA: So no one said anything bad to you after the war, but at the same time, did it bother you that you were reading all these books by Bill Hosokawa and...

GK: Oh, well that man, just, I thought was disgusting. I didn't like the things he used to say, I thought it was unnecessary. Besides, wasn't he a Canadian?

FA: That's S.I. Hayakawa.

GK: Yeah.

FA: No, we're talking about Bill Hosokawa.

GK: Oh, Bill Hosokawa.

FA: Editor of the Heart Mountain Sentinel and the PC, Pacific Citizen, author.

GK: Well, I guess I didn't pay too much attention to that. [Laughs] I don't know.

FA: But the fact that all these books and the Pacific Citizen of the JACL, always talk about the veterans, but they never talked about the --

GK: Yeah, yeah, I know. I know.

FA: Did that bother you?

GK: No, I thought -- well, I just kind of checked them off my list that they're just on the other side, and I didn't think like them and I didn't believe like them, so I just, I just ignored it. My husband and I always said that, that they don't know where they're coming from. And then later on, Gracie went to Washington, D.C. and Masaoka said something to her like, about the Fair Play thing. Oh, so she thought this is, this is one of those guys, so she never went back to him.

FA: Could you tell me, what did your husband think about the JACL after the war?

GK: He didn't think much of 'em.

FA: Tell me, Gloria, what does your husband think about the JACL before the war and in the war, when they encouraged your cooperation in the evacuation?

GK: Well, see, I really, isn't it awful just to say I don't know, because we didn't pay too much attention to the JACL before the war, and of course, with our getting started farming and doing all this kind of thing and working for the churches, we just didn't pay too much attention to the, what the Niseis were doing. Because my husband was an Issei, huh? That's why.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 1993, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.