Densho Digital Archive
Frank Abe Collection
Title: Jim Akutsu Interview
Narrator: Jim Akutsu
Interviewers: Frank Abe (primary); Frank Chin (secondary)
Location: Seattle, Washington
Date: August 28, 1993
Densho ID: denshovh-ajim-02-0002

<Begin Segment 2>

FC: What does "repatriation" mean?

[Interruption]

JA: Repatriate means that I as a enemy -- as an alien, want to be, want to go back to my own country. Expatriate means, as a citizen of United States you will expatriate, meaning that you want to leave the country, expatriate.

FC: Did Yasui agree with the strategy?

JA: Well, actually, I told him that that's what I was going to do and, "I will fight the case and when it comes up, when the... let's see... citizenship comes up, I will bring up the documents from the Spanish embassy, and also from WRA to prove to the government that I am an alien, and under 4-C, that I had no obligation." Or anybody. In matter of fact, anybody in camp, everybody held in camp given 4-C, they didn't have any obligation. That's right out of the selective service classification.

FC: So as a strategy, how was this going to work?

JA: Okay. The thing was, strategy was that I will claim that I had no obligation, but to prove that I was an alien I had to have a document or something by the third country or somebody, third party telling me that I am okay to be repatriated. So they're accepting me as an alien, okay? That's the main thing. So Spanish embassy accepted me as an alien. WRA, they also accepted me as an alien and that's the document that I wanted to take to the, my day in court, to say that, "Here it is; I'm an alien. And 4-C, I do not have any obligation." Meaning all the rest of the people in camp, if they're in camp, classified 4-C, they had no obligation. The funny thing is, two camps -- Minidoka and Heart Mountain -- where JACL was very active, we got the biggest sentence. We in Minidoka got more than Heart Mountain did. But Poston and Tule Lake, Gila River, all the others, the judge says, "No case," or whatever it is, "You go back home." Because they didn't cite that they were 4-C, "enemy alien," with no obligation. But why did they...

FC: How did giving up your citizenship... did giving up your citizenship --

JA: I didn't give it up. The government is the one that, you know, took it away, or whatever they did to meet their whatever, to put us in camp. So the thing is, the government did that. Not me. I didn't give it away. The government took it away with no cause, no due process. That's what I'm challenging. The thing is, if they could do it to me, then what about the rest of the America?

FC: But by accepting being alien, how did you hope to restore your rights as an American citizen?

JA: It was up to the government. It was up to the government. They violated the Constitution or whatever they did, they did it in violation. Therefore, it's up to them to right whatever wrong. Therefore, I'm always putting the monkey on the government's back. "You correct it. You said this -- you correct it." See? I never said, "I'm an American." I never said that. Yeah. Because they made me an alien, therefore I am an alien. Okay? Other people claimed they're American citizen, therefore the government would come down and say, "Hey, when we tell you to jump, you better jump. How far, that's up to you." But in my case I didn't have to. Why? Because I'm an alien. If the laws, the Constitution applied, why didn't it apply to us? Everything. Why didn't it apply to us? It didn't, so what was I, alien or citizen? If I were a citizen, yes, it applied, and I could vote, I could do whatever, but I couldn't vote, I couldn't get out, I couldn't go to school, I couldn't go out to work. I was just held.

FC: So you felt by accepting, having the papers to demonstrate you were an alien, that the government had declared you an alien...

JA: Yes. They accepted me, the WRA, on the other hand, Spanish embassy.

FC: ...that this would force the government to reconsider?

JA: That's right. It's putting the monkey on their back and saying, "No, no, wait a minute. You're still a citizen." Well, then, if I were a citizen, what am I doing in camp? Why can't I get out? Why are my constitutional rights, etcetera, constantly being violated?

FC: Do me a favor and say these words: "I hoped with my strategy, to make, force the government to reconsider my citizenship status."

JA: Yes.

FC: Say those words.

JA: Okay. With my doing, I hoped the government will reconsider my citizenship status. Make a definite, you know. We didn't know -- lot of people didn't know who they were. They were in limbo.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 1993, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.