<Begin Segment 3>

FC: So take us back, several times you asked to be allowed to make a phone call.

JO: That's right. Several time I asked them to let me make a phone call, and each time I was denied.

FC: So when did you secure a lawyer or contact a lawyer to help you?

JO: I never said that. I never directly contacted because I was not able to.

FC: So how did a lawyer get to you?

JO: Well, they finally let me have, make one phone call after my arraignment. As we were going out of the building, there's a bank of telephone and they says I can now make my phone call. So I called my wife and asked her to get in touch with the lawyer. And in the meantime, I was taken back to the marshal's office. Within twenty minutes, twenty-five minutes, I was hustled out of the building, put into a car and taken to Cheyenne.

FC: And do you think this was going to make it difficult for your lawyer to find you?

JO: It made it difficult so that we couldn't challenge, challenge their transferring me to another state.

FC: So you were arraigned, you were formally charged and arraigned without the benefit of counsel?

JO: That's right. And not only without the benefit of counsel, but without telling me what was happening, whether, what the bond was. It was only when I was in the jail about ten days that I learned that the bond was five thousand dollars. We didn't even know this.

FC: Could you say, "I was arraigned without a lawyer present," or arraigned... just say those words in a sentence.

JO: I was arraigned without any counsel, without being allowed to speak with a counsel, and without being informed of what the decision was.

FC: Were you, when you were transferred from the general holding tank to solitary, what reason did they give you?

JO: They gave no reason. I mean, I was just taken out of the general holding tank and they put me into what was regularly a women's quarter, which was barred, and it was barred all the way around. And that was the solitary I received.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1993, 2005 Frank Abe and Densho. All Rights Reserved.