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MN: And then for yourself, what were your plans? You graduated from George Washington law school, what next?

KM: Well, our problem was, number one, to pass the bar at that time. At that time, when we got out, in 1953, it was at the point when the bar examination, passing was at the lowest. I think for a few years at that time, only one-third of the applicants passed the bar in Hawaii. And the Bar Association, later on, reviewed the system of grading, and I think they revised it to accommodate. In fact, I took the bar, I passed the bar on the third time that I took it. And about that time thereafter, in fact, after the bar, my bar examination, thereafter, there was an appeal by the applicants that not enough applicants passed. And so the Supreme Court of Hawaii reexamined and had a hearing, if I remember, upon which more applicants would pass. And they changed the system of exam. I think up to my time, there were ten examiners, and each ten examiners gave ten points, I think, something like that. And so, as it was found out, where one examiner was very strict on his grading, it affected the whole list of applicants, so that as a result of that one examiner's very low grade, it affected the total number of those who would pass. So it was at that point that they changed the system of examination.

MN: Many years ago, when I interviewed your brother Katsuro, he mentioned that, at the time, he was trying for the bar, and his time, someone told him, "Well, it might be kind of difficult to pass," and that person told him, "You look at your face." And he said, "What's wrong with my face?" And it was just that person was telling him that, "You look at your ethnicity, that's a factor." Now, at your time, was that still a factor?

KM: That was not a factor anymore. When my brother took the exam, that was when they had district court practitioners in existence yet. Like Steere Noda was a district court practitioner all his life. You didn't have to go to law school, you didn't have to have a bar, I mean, law school degree. You could practice law under a lawyer for so, x-number of years. And then you take the bar exam and if you pass it, you qualify to become a lawyer. So they had that system. But later on, they changed it so you must have a law degree before you could apply for that. I don't know when, but my good friend, Barney Trask, I think, was a district court practitioner.

MN: And in the times of your brother, it was hard for Japanese.

KM: Oh, it was, definitely. I think when he passed the bar, he was the fifth AJA lawyer in Hawaii at that point. Of course, the number of lawyers was very few at that time, 1940, 1939.

MN: And by your time, though, being AJA was...

KM: We did not feel that it was... although if I remember correctly, when one-third could pass, during that time, there was some mentioning of the fact that one particular examiner... you see, all of these examiners were practicing attorneys. And this one particular examiner who was supposed to be the one who was giving out these extra low grades. There was some quiet talk that that was one of the reasons why his passing grades were so low.

MN: But it wasn't that much a factor by that time?

KM: No, that wasn't any... although it was not brought out in the open, it was talked of quietly. But that was only one out of ten examiners.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.