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And the previous day, you had asked about the dual citizenship question. I've been thinking back on that question. I now realized that all during that time, even before... well, before Pearl Harbor, yes, there was this period, when I was in Maui, however, because Maui, there was not much public sentiment on the question of dual citizenship, where I lived on the island. It was on Oahu mainly that the activity of expatriation movement had begun and much publicity. But bank on Maui, and even after I registered at the University of Hawaii in September of '41, by that time there was never too much ado about dual citizenship. The fact that thirty thousand Niseis expatriated prior to 1940, I think had kind of settled that question now. And today, when I think about and reflect on what happened in 1941, you know, on our talk sessions about history, this question always been asked, what about the dual citizenship? As I sit here and think about it, I don't ever remember the question of dual citizenship ever being raised from December 1941. When we volunteered there was no question raised about are you a dual citizen. This is, unlike the American counterpart that lived on the Mainland, because they were relocated forcibly, taken to camps. But in Hawaii, I don't recall that ever having become an issue when you volunteered for Hawaiian Territorial Guard. When I went to work at the defense work in Puunene, the USED, which was the U.S. Engineers service corps, or even under the naval, when the naval constructors took over the project on Maui. The question of dual citizenship never was raised as far as I can recall. Even when I was already in the 442, and a group of us were all interviewed to determine whether any of us would volunteer for the military interpreters. This was prior to our basic training ending. It was during basic training that the first group of 442 members were taken out of the 442 and shipped out to Minnesota for the interpreters language school. Even at that interview, I don't recall the question of dual citizenship ever being an issue.

MN: When you folks were asked about your citizenship, did they ask what citizenship do you hold and how did you folks answer?

KM: No, I don't think... you say "when you were asked." I don't recall ever being asked. It was merely on the paper. Whatever document we signed, if anything, it was a simple question of are you a United States citizen, the automatic response was yes. And I don't ever remember specifically being asked if you are a dual citizenship at any time. Even today when I tried to think back, I don't recall ever being asked, "Are you a dual citizen"?

MN: So in terms of paperwork, it could be that those who read the forms were aware that you had an American citizenship but not necessarily anything else.

KM: The point I'm trying to make is that almost all the questionnaires didn't ask, are you a dual citizen. It's always what citizen... "are you a citizen?" that's all, not dual. Because there would be no reference to dual. Why should any of the national forms refer to dual citizenship? Because dual citizenship was a unique, basically unique category for Americans of Japanese ancestry in Hawaii and on the West Coast. So if anything, the regular forms used by the military, used by the government, would have no reference to dual citizen. It would be, "Are you a citizen?" "Yes." "Are you a U.S. citizen?" "Yes." And so today, when we are asked the question of dual citizen, I don't recall that being raised in that manner except, you see, the other way, how it was in my case and also in the Kotonks, those two questions, "no-no" questions, were specifically referring to the internees in the relocation camps. "Are you willing to serve in the United States Army?" "Are you willing to defend your country?" Those two questions basically were asked of the internees. But you know why I don't remember being asked? Except during the interview for Military Intelligence, in my case, the fact that my father was interned was raised, would it interfere in your duties of, I think orally I was asked. And my point is it doesn't make any difference because he's been there and I volunteered, my volunteered and being the proof enough of my, where my allegiance lay.

MN: I'm glad we discussed this.

KM: Because I don't recall ever being raised or that question being posed in that manner. I think now it has the question of dual citizenship, this or that.

MN: But at that time it was not an issue.

KM: Because, as I said, whatever forms that we signed to join the Hawaiian Territorial Guard, and it was printed forms, there would be no reference to dual, because that was not a normal question to ask of any ordinary American citizenship. The question would be "are you a foreign national or an American, U.S. citizen," that's all. There was no question of dual citizenship.

MN: And then in sort of a related vein, I know that in Hawaii during the war years, if a person was working in a defense job, many Japanese Americans had to wear what they called the restricted badge or black badge. And I was curious, when you were on Maui working at Puunene, did you also wear a black badge?

KM: I don't remember ever being required to wear a different kind of a badge other than the badge that every worker in Maui put on the so-called black badge. I only heard it after the war by talk story sessions where the veterans would say, "Oh, when I was working in Pearl Harbor I had to go put on a badge." But Pearl Harbor, I think, was a little different. So any stereotyping of an Oriental probably the question was raised. And the military, I think, took special effort to raise that. Wearing the black badge was, to me, basically, as I look at it now, it's probably acceptance of the fact that this person is authorized to enter, not questioning his loyalty because he's already allowed to work within the confines of the high security area. But on Maui there was, I don't ever remember a reference to a black badge when I was, during the one year that I worked for the U.S. Engineers and for the naval construction.

MN: And then going back a little bit, when you were at Atherton House, when Pearl Harbor occurred, who were the other guys living at Atherton House?

KM: There were just a few what we called army brats. Military children, dependents of military families in Pearl Harbor or Schofield. And they were those who were at the university, there was a small percentage of these boys staying at Atherton House. These were the ones who were, for one reason or the other, coming to, probably spent the Saturday night at home, and probably was coming back Sunday to the dorm for one reason or the other. But those are the ones who were making the rounds trying to get everybody up at A House.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.