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MN: And then, you know, you mentioned the AJA league. We've been having this discussion on this project about the term "AJA"

KM: Yeah, Americans of Japanese Ancestry. You know, I keep wondering around when it started, but as far back as I can remember, I think we referred to the baseball, particularly the baseball was the number one sport that the AJAs were involved. And I think we referred to ourselves as the Americans of Japanese Ancestry, AJA, on Maui, as I recall. I don't recall any other terminology, I don't think we referred, I don't think we referred to ourselves as Niseis at that time. I think the "Nisei" terminology came in after the war when we tried to explain who we were. And it was part of the differentiation between first generation and second generation and the Nisei terminology, because Nisei means second generation. And before that, I think we only referred -- and that's because maybe during the war, or shortly before the war, there was this, remember, there was this business of, we encountered that. But in 1938, I think it was, that there was a big movement within the Japanese American community to expatriate. And expatriation was, until 1922, all children of Japanese ancestry born in Hawaii automatically became American citizens by virtue of birth, and by virtue of treaty between Japan and the United States. The Japanese government was also allowed to recognize these children of Japanese ancestry as Japanese citizens automatically by virtue of the parents being Japanese citizens. So all children born of Japanese citizens outside of Japan, like Hawaii, automatically was endowed with the Japanese citizenship. And so when things, diplomatic relationship between Japan and the US. worsened on around 1937, '38, during the Manchurian Incident and whatnot, questions were raised as to, A, where does the loyalty of the Japanese Americans... because at that time they were referring to the Japanese Americans. And I believe there was objections to referring to Japanese because the emphasis was on the Japanese aspect and not, emphasis on not being American. And I think the community gravitated to referring to themselves as Americans of Japanese Ancestry, even though, prior to that, that was the phraseology as far as I can remember. But it became a subject of discussion because there were some people who wanted to keep on referring to themselves as Japanese, of Americans. But it's contradictory because you cannot be American and be Japanese. The terminology is very contradictory. You cannot be Japanese American because Americans are not known for one ethnic background. Everybody can be an American regardless of what your ethnic background is. It's who do you want to emphasize, what do you want to emphasize? The fact that you are an American, of what? And so in America, you have American of English ancestry, of African ancestry, of Swedish ancestry, and they're all Americans. And so the primary emphasis is the fact that you are American first. And especially in 1938 and thereabouts. You wanted to emphasize the fact that you were American first, and not of the ethnic background. And so during this period of expatriation, I think it became one of the subject matter as to who you are, who are you? Now, if you ask who you are, first of all, you are American. That's the primary emphasis. And so, in 1938, 30,000 Niseis of Japanese descent, Americans of Japanese ancestry expatriated, cut off their lawful legal citizenship to Japan. And it required a voluntary action on the part of the person to expatriate.

MN: And in your situation, what did you do in terms of expatriating, or not expatriating?

KM: My brother Katsuaki immediately above me was one of the activists at the University of Hawaii. He was a student at the University of Hawaii during this period. In fact, he and my older sister, Fumiye, was also active in this regard at the University of Hawaii. But being on Maui, it wasn't much of a big deal in Maui. So I never got involved in this movement to expatriate alone. How this came about was, after the war started, the question came up between my brother and I. I remember, was it a discussion shortly before the war? Shortly before the war, my brother was living in Oahu, but then he would come back every so often. And at one point, I think we did have a discussion, lengthy discussion between he and I, as to whether I would expect it or not. And my argument with him at that point was that, at that point, the government, between Japan and the United States, long ago had felt that there was nothing wrong in a person being a Japanese citizen and an American citizen. And I told my brother that as long as the American government refused to allow my father and mother to become American citizens, you see, at that time, by law, no matter how long they lived in Hawaii, my parents could never become American citizens by law. And so my argument I remember with him was that as long as the laws refuses to have mother and father become American citizens, I see nothing wrong in me being dual citizen, because I'm the child of my father and mother. And by virtue of law, I'm a dual citizen. And so I turned down his request that I consider expatriation.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.