<Begin Segment 12>

MN: With your father being a volunteer for the consulate, being a respected member of the merchant community in Kahului, and being aware of things, to what extent... did you ever hear him talk about Japan-U.S. relations?

KM: You know, it was not a big thing to be pro-Japanese or pro-Japan before 1941. I don't recall, maybe because Maui and because of our small community, Kahului, that there was no big anti-Japanese movement or anything like that. But back in 1938, was it 1938, '39, there was a big movement to expatriate. Not instigated, but the big move on to the University of Hawaii students, AJA students. And something like my recollection, 38,000 Niseis expatriated at that time. I didn't cut off my relationship, my Japanese citizenship. I still am a dual citizen, and my rationale to my brother when we discussed this expatriation business back then was that by law, both governments believed that there was nothing wrong with being a citizen of Japan and being a citizen of the United States. And I saw no reason why, because of public sentiment one way or the other, that I should cut off something that is legal, well-established, and recognized by both countries. To this day, I'm convinced that I was correct because it never affected my serving with the 442 or my volunteering with the Hawaiian Territorial Guard when it was necessary to do so, the fact that I was a dual citizen, didn't mean anything. Unfortunately, in the case of my father, who was interned with Nanami something-or-other from Honolulu, Hawaii, first-generation Japanese. During the course of the war, there were over two hundred, close to three hundred members of the 442 and the MIS whose parents were prisoners of war. I call them prisoners of war because, to differentiate between relocation camp internees and internees like my dad and your grandfather. Because... what was I going to say about... yeah, many parents whose son was in the service, were allowed to go back to Hawaii or allowed to go to relocation camps. During the war and after the 442 was formed, and under Gayle Okawa's study, she was able to find out a whole list of people. I saw one report where my dad, that was his third hearing was... they had these hearings every so often, especially of those who had sons in the service. And so even though my brother Katsuaki had already died, they rejected my dad. It was an outright denial of, he was being discharged, I don't know, without any reason being stated. Maybe because of his response when he was interviewed, I suppose, after being interned.

MN: Going back to the expatriation issue, I know that your older brother Katsuro was a real proponent of expatriation. What were his arguments to you?

KM: No, I got into an argument with Katsuaki. We had a long discussion with Katsuaki, my one immediately above me. But Katsuaki was three years older than I was. So anyway, my argument was, I told him that I see absolutely no reason why. What is it going to prove? It's not going to prove anything one way or the other. So true enough, in spite of the thirty-something thousand AJAs, it didn't change the public sentiment at that time. We were, in spite of that we were declared "dangerous enemy aliens" in the draft board. So in the long run, my position was right. I didn't have to expatriate. I served three years in the army, how can you do that if you were under suspicion?

MN: I was wondering, when this expatriation movement was going on, what views if any did your father express about that? He's Issei, his oldest son, Katsuro --

KM: Like I said, I don't remember intelligent discussion between my father and me. The discussion was between Katsuaki and I, my older brother. He was heavily involved in the movement at the University of Hawaii. So he was one of the student activists who was pushing for expatriation.

MN: So it was Katsuo and Katsuaki?

KM: Katsuaki was a member of the... Katsuro was a member of the Emergency Service Committee, Katsuaki was a junior at the University of Hawaii, because he graduated in 1940. So it was during that period when all of this expatriation movement and whatnot happened. Very much involved, he lived on campus at the Charles Atherton House.

MN: I think I'll end it here and we'll continue next time.

KM: Okay.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.