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TH: Kind of reflecting back on your time with the office, what are some of the key takeaways from your experience working at ORA?

EK:  Yeah. Well, I think professionally it was significant because I grew to really understand the power of marshalling a lot of people behind a certain vision or goal and how you can do that, and within government to not do it in a bureaucratic way, to really lead with the individuals working with other individuals to really foster that cooperative spirit. And I think it also demonstrated the importance of creative thinking. There was no template for us to look at when we were figuring out how to set the office up or how to determine eligibility or track claims. This is all pre-computer, by and large. So it was definitely the power of creative thinking and the power of that can-do spirit and also the importance of leadership and trust. Those are two things that I think started with Bob and Joanne and certainly continued over the duration of the time that I was there, but it was something that I think was really key early on that laid the groundwork for us to be successful.

TH: In thinking about government offices, and if you asked the person on the street, you know, for what their opinion or observation would be, usually you wouldn't get a positive view, or at least it would be somewhat dampened in any time, perhaps. But I wanted to, I wanted to ask, what are some of the takeaways you hope people get from learning about the office? Because this really does seem like one of the "not within the norm," not... that actually the government does work. What were some of the takeaways you hope people get from that, and your thoughts on that?

EK: Yeah, so I almost feel like it was a different time, so the takeaways may or may not be relevant today. I think that, yes, government certainly is large and can be bureaucratic. But I think it really brought home the importance of having career federal employees who were there across, you know, spanning administrations who have the institutional knowledge to really know how to get things done effectively within government. I mean, that's the, to me, the biggest thing. I think today there's a suspicion of government and a suspicion of government intentions that thankfully, I think we weren't really up against back then in the way that it might be today. I think the Civil Liberties Act was passed with bipartisan support, which is rare, but possible, and I think that was tremendously helpful. That's not to say we didn't get the occasional hate letter or people that disagreed with the program, we certainly did. But I do think that it was a really good example of what a relatively small group of people within this larger federal bureaucracy of the Department of Justice or the federal government can do. And oftentimes in working with partnerships, we worked with the White House, we worked with Congress, we worked with a number of federal agencies to achieve this. And it was something that was built on those relationships of primarily career employees, sometimes political appointees, but I think it really showed the impact of having people who are there to do a good job and not to serve, perhaps, partisan interests.

TH: I wanted to ask you, you were talking about impact. Personally, what kind of impact... I guess personally and professionally, did your time working on redress have on you?

EK: Yeah, so I think I just, as I mentioned before, best job I ever had. We had really clear goals and we all rallied behind it, and so it was really just a great work environment. And so personally, the role of, again, leadership and relationships and understanding how to navigate what could be a bureaucracy, those are the types of things that have stuck with me. And I always recall, I think Bob said it in his interview, he always knew before he asked for permission to do something, he always knew ahead of time what the answer was going to be. So he made sure he did his homework beforehand and rallied support beforehand. And approaching problems in that way and showing leadership in that way I think is the type of thing that has stayed with me personally.

TH: You know, I know this may be a tough question, and usually, I mean, this is a full oral history, so we're looking back on the history of the program, but putting it in context, it's 2020, do you think a program like this could happen today, Emi? Because there are discussions and there are, in a sense, references to the Office of Redress Administration.

EK: Right. That's a tough one. I would like to say theoretically it was possible, but I think certain things need to be in place. Certainly being willing to and able to reach across the aisle is certainly key, I think building consensus is a key, at least from the legislative side of things, but also within the Department of Justice to get things done. And I think as things become more partisan, everything is, decisions are made based on political calculations rather than the goal of something beyond partisanship. I think it's difficult. I would like to say that I hope it would be possible. If people can generate the political will to do something, just about anything is possible. So yeah, I don't know. I would like to be positive about something like this potentially happening again. Not the bad things, but the good impact of a government program. But I would say today I'm not sure.

TH: Are there any final thoughts or stories that you'd like to share?

EK: Yeah. So I'm certainly grateful, tremendously grateful for having figured out a way to do this. I think until I learned about oral histories and went to the oral history program at Cal at UC Berkeley, I wasn't quite sure what this was going to look like. So I'm tremendously grateful for having found, first of all, the funding to do this, but also to have colleagues who saw the value in doing this and agreed to spend some time being interviewed. And I'm obviously grateful to you, Todd, who patiently guided me through this whole process and helped me understand what this could be. You know, just also grateful for the circumstances, most of which I had very little control over, that allowed me to participate as an attorney in this historic program.

TH: Well, Emi, thank you so much, A, for sitting down and contributing your part to this oral history project, but also for undertaking it and for preserving this experience and the history of this very historic office for generations to come. So thank you.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2020 Emi Kuboyama. All Rights Reserved.