<Begin Segment 4>

TI: So did you ever talk to your father? So here, earlier you talked about how he was proud of Japan and its emergence as a world power, and yet, it sounds like he was very clear he was, wanted to be an American.

SK: Yeah. He says, "This is the only country in the world that you can become a citizen and not be an outsider. No matter what country you go, all over the world, you're an outsider. Well, here, the future is here." Even when the war started, he says, "Eventually we could work it out," he says. Had taken everything away and everything, but says, "Don't worry. You'll get, if you work hard and everything, Japanese will prosper here." He always said that. He never said they were discriminating us, 'cause I remember when we were, when the war started, when they put that exclusion order, some of the people, younger people, said, "Oh, yeah. Now, if the government's gonna put us in a camp, they gotta feed us rest of our life like Indians in the reservation." They said, "No, as soon as they say you can get out, get out." 'Cause that's no future. If you go in a reservation like the Indians, you're not going to, you're not going to be nobody.

TI: So it sounds like your father had a lot of wisdom about these things. When you think about history and how things played out, lot of the things that he said became true.

SK: Yeah. Just like when they dropped the atom bomb, about a month later, he says, "Mark my word, someday this atom bomb's going to come back to haunt the United States." And now we have to worry about it all the time. He was saying they wouldn't have dropped it on anybody else but Japan because Japan's not gonna do nothing about it.

TI: So your father had a lot of wisdom. I mean, you mentioned how he learned English kind of on his own. What kind of education did your father have?

SK: That's what I said. He didn't go to school. His father taught him at home. He was kind of a religious man, and real... as I look back, I learned more from him and a few other, older persons about facts of life and everything. Even these, you know about the "Forty-seven Samurai" and all that kind of stuff, he used to tell me all the stories.

TI: That's good. So let's go back now, it's after World War I, he had a small farm, made some money. And then you said he went back to Japan?

SK: Yeah, to get married. Because he knew, well, quite a few friends he had, they came from that area. And one of them, name was Suyehiro. He came a lot, quite a few, he's a little older. He came earlier and brought rice from Japan, and he grew rice in Stockton area, and he made money, so he went after -- because his family, Suyehiro family was in Japan. He came alone, the man. So he made good money, so he sold his, because he had to establish what they called Suyehiro rice brand, and then he sold it to a man later, he became the Kokuho rice. 'Cause his son wrote a story, and he told me how his father started it.

TI: And so I'm trying to figure out the connection. So this man Suyehiro was in Stockton, rice, so he sold it, went back to Japan. Now, how's that connected to your father?

SK: Well, my father knew him when he was farming the rice in Stockton. In fact, he knew other people, too. 'Cause I remember when I was small, every once in a while, those Kikkoman shoyu barrel, fish would come, salted in miso. And his friends would send it because Stockton area, there were striped bass. They were catching a lot of striped bass. But it was illegal to send striped bass, so they used to put the striped bass in the bottom, and then they called it, fish called shad, and it's not too good to eat, a lot of bones. They used to put it on top and send it to us. And he says, their friends sending that.

TI: And would that be, sort of, you said, preserved with that miso?

SK: Miso, yeah.

TI: So like kasu-no...

SK: Yeah, something similar, yeah.

TI: Similar to that?

SK: Yeah.

TI: And then the striped bass was on the bottom.

SK: Yeah, then it had one layer or two layer of shad.

TI: And then back then, they didn't want people to... so it was illegal to send that to different places.

SK: Yeah.

TI: Oh, interesting. But then the shad was okay. Do you know why it would be illegal to distribute...

SK: I don't know. I never asked.

TI: And so every once in a while, you'd get these really nice treats, then, from... in Kikkoman soy sauce, or shoyu.

SK: You know those barrel? I got one at home yet, but in the old days, less than five gallon, four gallon something in there.

TI: So this is a early taste of smuggling, I guess. Smuggling fish to Watsonville. Kikkoman. So your father knew Suyehiro, but then he went back to Japan, Suyehiro?

SK: Uh-huh.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Watsonville - Santa Cruz JACL. All Rights Reserved.