<Begin Segment 18>

TI: And so talk, well, before then, I mean, there was an incident at the church, just, I think days after December 7th. Can you talk about that?

JU: You mean the, the stoning of the church windows?

TI: Right, yeah. So describe what happened. So this was, I believe, at night. So why don't you pick up the story from, I guess, the moment that you heard or woke up.

JU: Yeah. Well, we knew that we were in trouble with regard to the sign on the church. It read, "The Japanese Methodist Episcopal Church and Institute." And, of course, this was done in not only English, but it was also written in Japanese, right? Because both programs ran together. And so we knew that that was, maybe needed change when war started, especially when the war started. And, of course, we didn't get it changed in time. And so, and then the process of having to get it approved by the church board, what are you going to put on this sign? So we knew that that needed to be altered, but we didn't, weren't able to alter it in time. So then, of course, it would become the California Street United Methodist Church.

TI: But the thinking was, I just want to make sure I understand. So by having the word "Japanese" and also the text written in Japanese, you thought that might provoke something from people because of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

JU: We were afraid that that would have immediate response and it did, that's all. That's the only way to explain it. Of course, the neighborhood kids... we're right on the border of the hoodlum section of the city, and we knew something would probably happen, and particularly the then right-wing, political right-wing. And so they wanted to make sure that that would be done, but it didn't get done.

And so just after, maybe the next week or so, we heard it in the evening, just about dusk. These guys, a pretty considerable group, because they broke a lot of windows. And they were stained glass windows, and we hadn't covered them with... there was no need to cover them with heavy screens and that sort of thing. So they were, the main floor was decimated, those large windows.

TI: So describe the group. When you say a considerable number, about how many do you think were there?

JU: Well, we weren't there at the start, we only (knew) they started breaking windows before they were hollering. They were cheering themselves on after starting to break the windows. But I don't, I never estimated the crowd, but it could run maybe fifty, sixty people. It doesn't, didn't have to be a very large group.

TI: And when you say they started breaking windows and then later on they started hollering, do you recall anything you could pick out in terms of what they were yelling about or hollering?

JU: Oh, they were... I don't know whether I could describe what they're saying. Calling, you know, the usual flood of anti-Japanese slogans. As I say, it was part of downtown, so they had all sorts of nicknames for Japanese.

TI: And what was your reaction when this was happening?

JU: Well, I was, my personal reaction was to, I was a kid, fifteen years old or something, fourteen, ready to run out in the street. But Dad says, "Nothing is ever done with force." So he just, he just stood and watched them from the windows. And so he made me drop all my rocks. [Laughs] Drop whatever I had. He said, "It's larger than you. Forgive them, they don't know any better." Which he was always saying when something went wrong. "Oh, Lord forgive them, they don't know what they do."

TI: But as a fourteen year old...

JU: That was very impressive, yeah.

TI: But you were willing to go out there and confront the group?

JU: Yeah, I was ready to go. But my family was, wasn't going to let me, you know that.

TI: And can you, those feelings, were they of anger? Were they fear? Can you...

JU: All those, of course. All those negative feelings, yeah. As I used to say, being a preacher's kid, you have a real good vocabulary of cuss words. [Laughs] And I can remember out-cussing them, we used to have a thing about it with my friends, so-called, who could cuss the longest not repeating the same word. You probably did the same thing but you're not going to commit yourself. [Laughs]

TI: No, I won't commit to that. But going back to your family, so while this was happening, you're standing next to your father, so your father in some ways is almost restraining you from going out.

JU: Yeah.

TI: Is the rest of the family there also, your mother and sisters?

JU: Well, actually, it was late enough that they, a lot of them had gone to bed when the worst stuff was happening. Because as you can imagine, it started out slow, and some of 'em were getting a kick of it, just a few rocks, and then it increased and then it got to heavy proportions.

TI: And then what made them stop, finally?

JU: Well, no more windows to break on those sides of the church, right?

TI: And so I'm thinking of some churches and I'm just trying to understand. So you have stained glass windows, are these the type that kind of go all the way around the church, or this like a one face...

JU: Well, they're the stained glass windows from the, from the external of the church. Anything that was external could be... but there are some that they missed in the backyard. But it pretty well demolished the standing windows. And there were two large segment windows, they were in Gothic form, of course, with three or four panels each. Those were the main windows that they destroyed.

TI: And these were the original stained glass windows that the Germans had, that had built and custom made.

JU: From Germany, yeah.

TI: From Germany. So they were quite, I'm guessing, quite beautiful and valuable.

JU: Yeah, they were very valuable, right. And some of them were etched with paintings, especially around the altar. There were about half a dozen windows that were in the altar, and so they were broken. And I think the thing that was most difficult was if you go there to the church now, even now, and open the doors, you find the hinges are, we never see hinges like this. They are leaded, they are bronze cast, I guess, really, carved in German lettering and German pictures. And all you do is open the door and you see these hinges that are, that were sacred fingers, figures, I mean. And you can even, you can even see that they put great art in the... that's what so amazing. It's even in the hinges.

TI: So the craftsmanship is just so...

JU: Yeah, it was great.

TI: ...fine craftsmanship in terms of the building of this. Which extended to these windows that were destroyed, or many of them were destroyed.

JU: That's right.

TI: Did the authorities or the police show up that night?

JU: Well, they, apparently they did disperse the crowd, so yes. They weren't averse to having to take care of the crowd. They dispersed, it took a while. I don't know, but they stood around a while before they dispersed it.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright ©2009 Densho and the Twin Cities JACL. All Rights Reserved.