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TI: Well, before we get to the war, I wanted to also talk about how your dad reached out to other non-Japanese communities in the Denver area, and in particular how because of the church, the property, you were able to reach out to the African American community. Can you tell me about that?

JU: Well, the obvious thing is that Dad, as a Methodist preacher, belonged to the Methodist pastor's group. And not only to the Methodist pastor's group, but to the Denver and Colorado Council of Churches. And so he was always going to those meetings and doing things with the preachers. And so that gives an obvious (relation) -- and then of course he was asked to speak at all those groups, and then his opinions were registered with the ministers and the councils. And that was always very healthy for the Japanese church. And then when they'd have conferences for the youth, (...) Japanese American kids were invited and that sort of thing, in the camps, were participated in by everybody.

TI: And so your, it sounds like your father, by being connected to these other reverends and ministers, that he could then... what's the right word, introduce Japanese Americans to these other groups.

JU: Exactly, yeah.

TI: But going back to the African American community, they had that one week, I think, in the summer where they used the church?

JU: Yeah.

TI: Describe that.

JU: [Laughs] Well, we were right on the border of the community. Welton Street was their street, California is only one block south. California was our territory. And many of the black businesses were on Welton street. And especially the ballpark was between Welton and California Street. [Laughs] So all the, all the athletic stuff could go on as an, really an intercultural situation. But therefore the contact with the black people, and the dentist up the street was on Welton Street. And Mr. Jones, Dr. Jones and Dad were very close people. And he just picked up rumors that they needed a place that was bigger than what they had to have their summer festivals. Which was fun, because we had nothing going on during the summers, 'cause everybody was farming. And so the black churches felt very much at home in our church, and they used it a lot. And of course, for me, it was great sport. I could hear their music and their prayer services, so it was wonderful. And that was a church that was on Welton Street and didn't have much property, because it was what we call a grocery store frontage. Anyway, they'd come to the church and use it. Dad was always willing to give it.

TI: So let me ask you this question. So here you were an observer, you mentioned earlier how there were some events for like a visiting Japanese minister or something, the place would be filled with Japanese.

JU: Yeah.

TI: And then in the summer, the black churches would get together and they'd have theirs, and it would be filled with African Americans. As an observer, looking at that, how was it different between a church full of Japanese and a church full of African Americans?

JU: Yeah, you know how quiet most Nisei are, Japanese are. And their services were very pedestrian, shall we say. Whereas the black churches, you had to open the windows and hear it all through the community. But yeah, it was a very different operation.

TI: So talk about...

JU: Temperamentally they're very different. [Laughs]

TI: So talk about the music, because I'm trying to get a sense. I think I know what you're talking about, but I want you to describe it a little bit more. So like the music in a Japanese church, how would that be?

JU: [Laughs] Well, you know, the traditional musicians, of course, would come with the flute and the... well, there was the koto. When we had Japanese festivals, we had the whole thing, right? Minus taiko drums. There weren't at that time the huge taiko.

TI: And so at the Japanese they'd have koto flute, and people would sit there and listen quietly?

JU: Yeah, they were very quiet services. Even the funerals and so forth were very staid. There was music, but it wasn't jazz. But at the black church, it was, they would have their Christian songs in jazz form. That was great sport. It was like living in New Orleans for a while.

TI: Because you were a young boy growing up with that, and so how did that influence you? Did you ever tell your dad, "Dad, we have to kind of like crank up the music," or something? Or later on in your practices, did you learn something from watching the, what happened to the black churches --

JU: Oh, sure.

TI: -- that you kind of took from that?

JU: Well, there were times where we did those things, yeah, that's true. But anyway...

TI: So we talked about the music, how about the sermons? How would you compare the sermons?

JU: Oh, they were very different, yeah. Because as the sermons go in black churches, you get immediate response from the congregation. And of course, in Japanese and most American services, it's very quiet on the whole. Yeah, that's true.

TI: How about the messages in sermons? Were they, although the delivery might be different, were the messages similar or did you hear something different in the sermons?

JU: Well, that... as custom dictates, those things are very, very culturally specific, I think. And so I can't imagine too much difference except I suppose when the youth groups take over. The youth groups rather do emulate each other. And the youth groups particularly are into banjo music and so forth, and guitar music now. But, and that's largely an outgrowth of different cultures.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright ©2009 Densho and the Twin Cities JACL. All Rights Reserved.