<Begin Segment 24>

MA: What were your feelings about the war in general, the Vietnam War?

BU: Well, when I was there, especially the second time there in '68, the war had been going on now for three or four years, and come to the realization that it really wasn't a military war, that it was a political war that the military was fighting. We had so many different activities going on. We had this war in South Vietnam, which was against the VC, Viet Cong. We had the war in North Vietnam that we were, fighters, aircraft were going up into. Then they had this thing going on in Laos and Cambodia, which we were "not" involved in. And then we had people dressed in civilian clothes, our own people, that go out at night to fight, and those were State Department people, which was CIA people. We had special forces that were fighting two different, one's a very covert war and the overt war. And as an Air Force Forward Air Controller, Air Liaison Officer, trying to plan, get involved in the planning of air strikes within the country there, there was all these different things going on. And the intelligence data was coming from so many different sources, and it seemed to me that the four, the Air Liaison Officers was a common point. They were the only ones that knew which, all these different activities were doing. Because if we were doing our job, we would support each of them. And those parties didn't know what was going on, what the other ones were doing. I knew, but they didn't, the other two Army organizations didn't. And that bothered the heck out of me the whole time I was there. And especially after dinner, normally our war would end at sundown, and then we'd go eat at the officers' club -- and then eat at the dining hall, and then go up and meet at the officers' club. The facility I'm referring to here now at Ban Me Thuot, was the king, the last king's hunting lodge complex. Beautiful, all teak wood, just a gorgeous facility. The Army, U.S. had taken over that whole complex for their advisory team, and it was a pretty big team.

MA: And where was this located?

BU: Ban Me Thuot, B-A-N M-E T-H-U-O-T, it's in the Central Highlands. And it was the last of the, what they called the Montagnard, which were the aborigines, they had the last king of the Montagnard, that was his era, area. And we would meet, gather at the club after dinner, and everybody would be there, all the officers are sitting around talking, drinking beer, I didn't drink, everybody else was. And a few guys sitting among us in civilian clothes. And all of a sudden, these guys in civilian clothes would leave, and that's when their work started. And they'd go out somewhere doing their thing.

MA: Were they gathering intelligence? I mean, what were they doing?

BU: Doing a lot of things. I think some of 'em were assassins, you know, going after particular individuals that they knew to be VC. And it was just an ugly war. And you didn't know who your enemy was there because of the Viet Cong. When I was there the first time, I was in a different area, I was in the area Corps south of where Ban Me Thuot is, it was what they called III Corps, Cuchi, and then the airbase that supported me was Bien Hoa. Well, 1968, during the big Tet Offensive, where the VC -- no, the... the regular Vietnamese, North Vietnamese army made an attack, a concentrated attack all throughout the South Vietnam and really hit Saigon hard, and hit this Bien Hoa Air Base, which was the Air Force contingent there. And there was a big battle there, and when it was all over, one of the VCs that they found that was underneath the barbed wire there that they had killed trying to get in to the Bien Hoa, turned out to be the officer's club barber. I probably had a haircut from him. But you didn't know who the enemy was there. And it's just a nasty war.

MA: Did the other officers sort of share that sentiment about it being a political war, a nasty war?

BU: I think a lot of 'em did. Lot of 'em did. I was quite, I was in the end of my career, senior officer, first time I was there I was a major, the second time I was there I was, I had become a lieutenant colonel. So I was a little bit older, and what I also found out living with the Army and all, these young officers just loved, lot of 'em just loved combat. They just couldn't wait to get out there and start shooting at the enemy, you know, finding an enemy and killing. And I also witnessed a lot of stuff that... people change when you give them a license to kill, you know, things they wouldn't normally do, behavior change when you give them the license to kill. And the way they think and behavior, it's just scary.

MA: Do you think it's a power issue, or a...

BU: Yeah. But when you, when you're free to kill, the enemy or whatever, or in this case, like that Mi Lai case where they killed a whole bunch of women and children and things, I could see how that got out of hand. Because there were women and children shooting and killing us, you know. But that, does that give you the right to shoot all, any women and child you see around that you think, you know? That put a stop to a lot of that. I think there was other incidents that had happened, that never made the news, but same thing might have occurred. I think there was a lot of those incidents. But war is just hell. It just, just changes people when you put a gun in their hand and it's okay to shoot and kill somebody. Especially somebody young when you train 'em that way. Take 'em out of high school, not so much college, but take 'em out of high school and give 'em a gun and tell 'em, "Kill," they're gonna do it. And you're trained not to think. If they say, "Kill," kill. That's why they had so much trouble in the, with the kids out of, off the college campuses. Because they were taught not, they were taught to think before they, you know. Whereas if you get younger kids, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen-year-olders and tell 'em, "Don't think, react." But there are cases, though, where you've gotta have that. Among us pilots, we do the same thing. We fly four airplanes together, here's the leader, and if he makes a mistake and gets too close to the ground and hits the ground, the saying goes they want to see three other holes right next to 'em, you know. And, but that's the way it is, you maintain the integrity. You protect your buddy. I had a granddaughter and I had a few words one day because she was telling one of her high school friends who was going into combat, told him, says, "When worse comes to worst, look out for yourself." Well, I said, "Uh-uh, I disagree," and boy, we had, I gave, told her what I thought about that. But since then, after she settled down and everything and told her more about it, and found out how things really work in real life, where you don't abandon your buddy, you take care of 'em. It might take your life, too, you don't bug out.

MA: And so you were in Vietnam, then, for nine months you said?

BU: Well, total twelve months.

MA: So total a year, but the second time you went back it was nine months?

BU: It was for nine months, yeah.

MA: And then you ended up retiring in 1970?

BU: Yeah, uh-huh.

MA: What was your rank?

BU: Lieutenant Colonel when I retired.

MA: Lieutenant Colonel?

BU: Uh-huh.

MA: And you went back to Oakland, is that right?

BU: Yes. Ended up retiring out of Hamilton Air Force Base which is right up the road here. And so when I did that, well, then I retired to Oakland.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.