<Begin Segment 30>

TI: And in terms of just the security at Santa Fe versus Topaz and Tanforan, was it about the same or was it different?

NH: I think it was, it seemed to me it was more secure at, in Santa Fe. The fences were, well, they were more permanent, because they were very permanent, and they were tall, way over your head. I don't know how tall they were, but, and then there were guard towers around. And in Topaz, there was a chain link fence about this high, six or seven feet, and then outside of that there was another chain link fence, so they were sort of double but there was space in between. I don't know, I think they had one, two, three, four watchtowers. One, two, three, three watchtowers on each side, all the way around.

TI: At Santa Fe or Topaz?

NH: Topaz. Maybe it was only on the corners.

TI: And what did they have in Santa Fe?

NH: Oh, they were pretty close together. [Laughs]

TI: So higher fences, more permanent, more towers, more guards.

NH: But there was still only, they were only soldiers, GIs, you know.

TI: So in terms of just the mood of the camps, how would you compare Santa Fe, the men there, versus being in Topaz with...

NH: Your family?

TI: ...the families and stuff.

NH: Well, I think, to me, Santa Fe felt more like a prisoner of war camp. I guess this is what a prisoner of war camp is like. Topaz was, oh, we're here temporarily, just can't go outside, but eventually we will. But the whole experience, to me, it was a huge adventure for me.

TI: It's pretty unique because in terms of Niseis, you're the first Nisei I've talked with who was in a Department of Justice camp. So it wasn't common.

NH: Oh no, it wasn't common.

TI: And it's not really clear to me why they sent you from Topaz to Santa Fe and not to Tule Lake. Because there still were men in Tule Lake, that they could have sent you there.

NH: They could have sent me there, yeah.

TI: But they decided to go to Santa Fe, and it's not, it's confusing to me why they did that. But you mentioned there was, perhaps, one other Nisei?

NH: Yeah, there was one other Nisei guy there, too. I forgot his name, but I used to correspond with him once in a while. But he went to Encinitas and he joined his family, and...

TI: Did you ever ask him why he went, or how, what his journey was to Santa Fe?

NH: I don't know.

TI: Like what camp he was in or anything like that?

NH: I don't know where he came from, I don't know why he was there or how he got there or anything.

TI: How about the Issei men? Did you ever talk to them about where they were from?

NH: Well, I would talk to them and I would find out that they were from, several of them came from Peru and the others came from California. Some were from Hawaii and some were from other places. And I said, "Oh, those people are the kind that got rounded up and sent here, I guess." That seemed to be what happened to them.

TI: Were they curious about you and why you were there?

NH: Not especially. [Laughs]

TI: You mentioned the Japanese Peruvians.

NH: Yeah.

TI: What was their story? Did you get a chance to find out more?

NH: Well, their story was that... well, the one story that struck me as really crazy is that he heard that all of the Japanese men were asked to come to city hall or wherever, police station or something in Peru somewhere. And when he went there, they just said, "You're under arrest." Nothing, that's it, "You're under arrest." And then they put 'em in jail and they put 'em all together and then sent 'em to the United States. Then the other strange part of it is, "All right, we're going to disband you all so you have to go home." And Peru says they're not Peruvian citizens, so, "You can't return to Peru." The United States government says, "You're not American citizens so you cannot come out and go to Los Angeles." So they had no place to go, "Where do we go?" So that's, that was, had to be solved. And I don't know where most of them ended up, but some of them went to return to Peru, and some of them returned to -- well, not returned, just went to California. And how they selected which went to where, I'll never know.

TI: While you were in Santa Fe, was there ever any dissention or -- "uprisings" is too hard of a word -- but discussions about, amongst inmates about what was going on and disagreements or anything like that?

NH: No. They just do what -- I mean, I don't know if there was any. I don't think there was. At least, I was never involved in any of that.

<End Segment 30> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.