<Begin Segment 26>

TI: Okay, so this is where I want to... it seemed ironic. One of the reasons why you went "no-no" was you wanted to stay with your family. And now, because you had known, said "no-no" and turned eighteen, they were now separating you from the family.

NH: Because our family couldn't go to Tule.

TI: Right.

NH: So, well, "You have to go."

TI: Someplace.

NH: Someplace, and they sent me to Santa Fe.

TI: So did you try to explain it to the officials that, that you wanted to stay with the family and that's why you answered the way you did, or was there any discussion about that?

NH: Oh, yeah. I talked about that with this counselor who was a woman, and said, "Well, the reason I did that is so that we could stay together. It doesn't make any sense." And she said, "Well, it's, that's the way it is. Too bad." In other words, I can't change my mind. I'd have to be "yes-yes," you know, otherwise...

TI: So, I'm sorry, did they give you the opportunity to change your mind?

NH: No.

TI: So they said because you wrote this...

NH: That's it.

TI: ...that you had to stick with it. And so what was your reaction? Did you try to say, well, did you try to fight it a little bit more?

NH: No. I didn't fight it then, but I found out that Wayne Collins of ACLU was gathering names of people who had re-, what...

TI: Renounced their...

NH: Renounced their citizenship.

TI: And that's what I wanted to ask. Because the "loyalty questionnaire" didn't necessarily renounce your citizenship, I don't think. I mean, it was just...

NH: No, that was a different paper.

TI: That was a different paper.

NH: Yeah, different piece of paper.

TI: So you signed another paper later.

NH: Another paper, yeah.

TI: And was this before you were eighteen or when you were eighteen you signed the paper?

NH: I don't know when. I really don't remember when.

TI: So there were, there were two things you did. So you had the questionnaire...

NH: Well, there was the questionnaire, and then there's the renouncing your citizenship, and there was registering for the draft.

TI: Right.

NH: 'Cause you had to do that, too, regardless of whether you were a "no-no" or a "yes-yes," you had to do that, 'cause when you were eighteen, you registered for the draft.

TI: So let's walk through all three. So the first one we know about, you went "no-no" on the questionnaire. Then you renounced your citizenship, and then the draft, what happened for you?

NH: Well, they said, "You're eighteen, sign up for the draft," so I signed up for the draft.

TI: So you had three things. So went "no-no," you renounced your citizenship, and then you registered for the draft. So that's really confusing. [Laughs]

NH: You really, you're a man of nowhere. And yet, if you don't do it, you go to jail.

TI: And your, and your intent, what you wanted to do was stay with the family.

NH: Yeah, that's all I wanted to do.

TI: Wherever they went, whether it was Tule Lake to Japan, or staying in Topaz, you wanted to stay with your family. And you explained this to this counselor, and she just said...

NH: "Well, this is already done, so now this is what's going to happen." "There's nothing we can do here to change anything, all I'm doing is explaining what you did and what's gonna happen to you from now on." That's about all she was able to explain.

TI: Now, when you were filling out these forms earlier, was there any people helping you to figure this out?

NH: Not that I, I didn't have any counseling or advice or anything like that. But like I said, those who had renounced their citizenship, somehow ACLU got hold of that list, and they sent questionnaires saying, "Do you want to join this group?" So I said, "Okay," and I signed up to have my renunciation revoked.

TI: And was this when you were still at Topaz that this list came out?

NH: Yeah, it was in, that, yeah... I'm pretty sure it was Topaz. It wasn't Santa Fe. And I found out about it in Topaz, I'm sure, and then in Santa Fe nothing happened, and then when I got, and then I was in Santa Fe for about six months, seven months or so, and then I went, and during that period that I was there, our family moved from Topaz to Berkeley, and the whole business of going to Tule Lake was cancelled. And so they let me out and said, okay, I can go back to Berkeley. Then in Berkeley I got some papers saying, "Do you want to continue with this, formally sign up to become a party to this renunciation of citizenship rescission, cancellation?" which I joined.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.