<Begin Segment 19>

TI: Right after Pearl Harbor, there were a couple of emergency JACL meetings, and one took place in March 1942 in San Francisco, where you and a lot of other, I think, chapter representatives were present. Can you describe that meeting?

JK: Well, I think it was, I forget the name of the hall, but as I recall, we sat in this, in the guest area, and I think it was Milton Eisenhower and Bendetsen and General DeWitt, they sat up on the stage. And the questions were, at that time, says, "What would become of the Japanese?" and, "Why wouldn't it be possible to ask President Roosevelt to rescind the order?" They, the speakers on the group there, I have, like the pictures I have there, have several of them, that I became acquainted with some of them after, after they'd evacuated. And they were asking, like, General DeWitt if it weren't possible for the Japanese to stay where they were and to be curfewed and to be policed by the MPs. And he said, "No way," he says, "The only good Jap is a dead Jap, and we're gonna get you out of here." And he was adamant about the order of President Roosevelt on that. There was nothing that could persuade them to change their attitude toward the Japanese. And besides that, there were signs all over California to "Get the Japs out of town," "We don't want any Japs here." And such as it turned out was that all the produce went to, went to pot, and all the farm, farmlands and the lettuce, especially the farmers, were, and the people were complaining about the inferior products that they were getting from the local farmers up there, and they wanted the "Japs" to come back.

TI: So this was, timing-wise, this was kind of a... what's the right term? Like a last-ditch effort by the JACL. So this was March 1942, so this was after Roosevelt had signed Executive Order 9066 but before people were being, were being removed, and so this was an opportunity or something that the JACL tried to do just to get them to change their mind.

JK: Well, we couldn't do very much about that, they says, "That's an executive order," and they ordered the army to conduct the process of evacuation.

TI: Right. So the next, there was another emergency meeting in November of 1942 in Salt Lake City. Do you recall that meeting?

JK: I recall part of it, but I don't recall too much of that meeting. There was a meeting of, oh, the so-called JACL heads, but then I don't recall what was discussed there, except what we could do to further the enlistment of the Nisei soldiers. And that's when, that's when the 442nd was being formed, it was about that time.

TI: Yeah, because right, because November of '42 was right before, so it was January of 1943 that the government said that Japanese Americans could volunteer, so this was a precursor. But you're right, I think one of the key issues was the formation of the 442 or letting Niseis join. But some of the research said this led to a lot of unrest inside the camps, and in particular, the "Manzanar riots." So what was the impact of the "Manzanar riot" on the JACL?

JK: There were too many dissenters in Manzanar. As a matter of fact, this Lyle Kurisaki was from Brawley, California, and he was at Manzanar. And he says that he was also tied in with the JACL there, and they came after the, that is, the dissenters, they came after him. And he says that he got under the bed table and he just hung himself up as high as he could under the mattress. And they looked under the bed and of course there was an open space there, that he wasn't... and so they figured he's not there. And he says that's what saved his life, because he says that they were out after all the JACLers, that they blamed the JACL for causing the evacuation. Of course, as far as I knew, the JACL had nothing to do with the actual evacuation except follow the orders. And of course the JACL, I think they encouraged the people to cooperate as much as they could, but they weren't as, there were so many of them that were dissenters that they didn't want to cooperate. And then when the, when the papers came out of this "loyalty papers," that asked if they would fight for the U.S. or they would resent, or they would resent the actions of the U.S., or that, whether they would volunteer. But I don't know exactly what happened in that case there, except Lyle and his wife and son and daughter moved to Salt Lake, somehow they got out of Manzanar and they came out here. And I played a lot of golf with Lyle while he was here. And he was working at an ice cream -- well, I don't know what he was doing in Brawley, California, but then he came out here and he was working at an ice cream factory here.

TI: And so did he tell you how difficult it was in Manzanar for him? Is that when you were, like, golfing and he would tell you these stories?

JK: Well, he was... I think he indicated that he was the club champion at the Brawley Country Club. And he came out here and he played golf with us quite a bit.

TI: No, but I was curious, I mean, when you golf with him, did he talk about the difficulties in Manzanar?

JK: Yeah, he did.

TI: And so that's when he told you the story of hiding?

JK: Yeah, he was hiding from the, from the dissenters there.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.